[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Played Bonita last week and Redfish Run today. They are both in pretty terrible condition. I understand that the three courses in that area were all closed last summer for renovation or maintenance. I can't imagine what was done to them, but whatever it was didn't help. If a course is closed for some reason for an extended period of time, it should be pristine when it reopens. Neither of these are anywhere close to pristine. Greens are slow and bumpy and inconsistent from green to green. Some greens have bare spots that look like alligator skin. There are holes and bare spots within five feet of the greens. A few of the tees were completely gone.

I understand that we having a bit of a drought, but there is no reason that these greens and surrounding areas should be like this.

[duhbear]

Did you pay your 10% Green Greens Fee? Just askin'.

[rjn5656]

Would be a good question to asK: eric.vangorder@districtgov.org,

[westcoast]

I played Redfish Run yesterday afternoon and thought it was
pretty good.










r

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by westcoast

I played Redfish Run yesterday afternoon and thought it was
pretty good.










r

You must be comparing it to the other golf courses north of 466A. I think that a lot of us have had our standards lowered by the deplorable condition of most of these golf courses. Either that or some of us have never played a course in good condition.

I played Truman and Roosevelt yesterday. Those along with Volusia are in reasonable shape.

[sheena0904]

If you only knew the struggles of maintaining executive courses in the Villages you wouldn't complain.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by sheena0904

If you only knew the struggles of maintaining executive courses in the Villages you wouldn't complain.

I assume you mean ball marks, few rake traps, few fill divots and lots and lots of play by both experienced golfers and new golfers. Perhaps these are the struggles?

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by sheena0904

If you only knew the struggles of maintaining executive courses in the Villages you wouldn't complain.

This being your first post, and although I don't play the executives so don't really have a dog in this fight, maybe it would still be a good idea if you could use your second post...to give a synopsis of such "struggles?"

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by sheena0904

If you only knew the struggles of maintaining executive courses in the Villages you wouldn't complain.

Give us a hint !!!

[sheena0904]

Not enough water, dirty water for irrigation, bad soils, nematodes, more play than anywhere in the world, noise ordinance restrictions that give you about an hour to get the course ready, golfers mad or yelling at you when try to work during play. Just things I observed when working in the past at The Villages. A tough and thankless job from what I've seen 😕

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

This being your first post, and although I don't play the executives so don't really have a dog in this fight, maybe it would still be a good idea if you could use your second post...to give a synopsis of such "struggles?"

Though not directed at me, I will give it a shot. The post about yours is a good start. Add to that the fact that the executive courses are open every day from September through May since they start the one week closures in June. During that period, there is usually someone on the courses from opening through late afternoon/early evening. The vast majority of the play on these courses involves two golf carts per foursome, many of which have the RA tags so they can, and do, drive off the cart path every hole. Since the holes on these courses are shorter and narrower than those on the championship courses, there is more wear and tear from cart traffic damaging the turf by compaction. with the long season, the damage is additive and not truly addressed by the work done during the summer closures. Not enough time. 90* rule? Forget it. Now this is not to say the RA tags themselves are a problem. They are appropriate and I am glad they allow people to continue to play and love this game. But please, people, adhere to the requirement to stay away from the greens. I've seen carts right on the fringe and carts driving between the green and bunkers.

I've seen many posts in threads that minimize the effect of the volume of play the courses get, but I don't agree that courses outside TV get the same amount of play. If they did, they wouldn't need or offer the deals they do to attract players.

As stated in the prior post, the level of care exercised by players on these, and to some extent on the championships, is also a problem. Unfilled divots, unrepaired ball marks, unraked sand bunkers all contribute to the condition of the course. I watched a player walk out of a sand trap and carefully step over the rake on the way to the cart, leaving deep footprints into the trap and back out, as well as the deep gouges where they tried repeatedly to get the ball out.

I play with a nice gentleman that, no matter how much we remind him, will exert maximum body English on each putt, twisting his feet dramatically and tearing up the green each time. Then walks to the hole, stands right on the lip while he rakes the ball out with the head of his putter and destroys the clean edge of the hole. Consider this being done by someone on every hole on every executive course every day and repeatedly.


Now let's talk about those that are actually trying to care for the course, but are, in fact, damaging it. I refer to those that think repairing a ball mark involves digging the tool underneath the depression and lifting it up. That may work on bent, but it basically kills the bermuda, leaving a dead spot and depression in the green. Or those that think that banging the putter head on the untouched ball mark magically heals it, rather than just depresses the ground around it to make the mark appear less deep.

Here's how I gained this perspective. I was a member of a lifestyle group that met with the district Director of Executive Golf Maintenance and representative of GMS on a quarterly basis to discuss course conditions. My responsibility was to monitor six courses. As a group we monitored all the courses. I rode the courses without playing so I could examine the conditions without slowing play. I watched group after group inflict damage without regard to the course or the players that followed and would have to deal with it. I once toured a course right behind the crew raking the bunkers and was amazed, but not surprised, to see a group walk into the newly smoothed bunker, hack out the balls, and walk out without touching a rake. I asked Eric if the contractors ever got frustrated seeing things like this and he replied it was considered job security. Think about the cost of this. Money/time spent re-doing maintenance unnecessarily can not be used to work on other things or upgrade conditions.

My thanks go to those out there who carefully, properly, repair ball marks in addition to their own. Who fill their divot and some around the same area. Who rake their footprints and divot in sand traps and also those around them. I was always told as a new golfer to leave the course in better shape than when I arrived. Never forgot that.

[sheena0904]

Great, great, GREAT comment/response right there! Perfectly said!

[bagboy]

Mikeod, excellent post from someone who has experience and understanding of golf course conditions and maintenance. I'll try to respectfully add my take on a couple of things. Executive courses here are built based on a master plan for real estate development. That doesn't mean that the site chosen are optimal for a golf course. Pushing dirt and sand around, laying out a few holes, and selecting tee box and green locations doesn't necessarily mean you are going to end up with pristine conditions. Soil conditions, heat, elevation of tees and greens (with respect to retainIng moisture and wind susceptibility ), foot traffic and player abuse are all factors in what we find on our golf courses. And at the top of the list is irrigation and a satisfactory amount of rain.
Our Executive Courses are located in proximity to Villages and population. They are an easily accessible amenity and convenient. With all that I mentioned above, the execs are never going to be lush and pristine. But we expect them to be decent, and for the most part they are. I played Red Fish Run yesterday, and Bonita Pass today. In my humble opinion, there wasn't one area of either course that was neglected with respect to maintenence. This statement wasn't true a couple of years ago. There were areas that would benefit and quickly recover with ample rainfall. And there were low lying areas that were a little squishy from the maintenance staff trying to get enough water on the entire course.
It appears to me we have a good staff doing the best they can to maintain our courses. If I thought for a minute this wasn't true, I would say so in a heartbeat. We need rain....

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Mikeod

Though not directed at me, I will give it a shot. The post about yours is a good start. Add to that the fact that the executive courses are open every day from September through May since they start the one week closures in June. During that period, there is usually someone on the courses from opening through late afternoon/early evening. The vast majority of the play on these courses involves two golf carts per foursome, many of which have the RA tags so they can, and do, drive off the cart path every hole. Since the holes on these courses are shorter and narrower than those on the championship courses, there is more wear and tear from cart traffic damaging the turf by compaction. with the long season, the damage is additive and not truly addressed by the work done during the summer closures. Not enough time. 90* rule? Forget it. Now this is not to say the RA tags themselves are a problem. They are appropriate and I am glad they allow people to continue to play and love this game. But please, people, adhere to the requirement to stay away from the greens. I've seen carts right on the fringe and carts driving between the green and bunkers.

I've seen many posts in threads that minimize the effect of the volume of play the courses get, but I don't agree that courses outside TV get the same amount of play. If they did, they wouldn't need or offer the deals they do to attract players.

As stated in the prior post, the level of care exercised by players on these, and to some extent on the championships, is also a problem. Unfilled divots, unrepaired ball marks, unraked sand bunkers all contribute to the condition of the course. I watched a player walk out of a sand trap and carefully step over the rake on the way to the cart, leaving deep footprints into the trap and back out, as well as the deep gouges where they tried repeatedly to get the ball out.

I play with a nice gentleman that, no matter how much we remind him, will exert maximum body English on each putt, twisting his feet dramatically and tearing up the green each time. Then walks to the hole, stands right on the lip while he rakes the ball out with the head of his putter and destroys the clean edge of the hole. Consider this being done by someone on every hole on every executive course every day and repeatedly.


Now let's talk about those that are actually trying to care for the course, but are, in fact, damaging it. I refer to those that think repairing a ball mark involves digging the tool underneath the depression and lifting it up. That may work on bent, but it basically kills the bermuda, leaving a dead spot and depression in the green. Or those that think that banging the putter head on the untouched ball mark magically heals it, rather than just depresses the ground around it to make the mark appear less deep.

Here's how I gained this perspective. I was a member of a lifestyle group that met with the district Director of Executive Golf Maintenance and representative of GMS on a quarterly basis to discuss course conditions. My responsibility was to monitor six courses. As a group we monitored all the courses. I rode the courses without playing so I could examine the conditions without slowing play. I watched group after group inflict damage without regard to the course or the players that followed and would have to deal with it. I once toured a course right behind the crew raking the bunkers and was amazed, but not surprised, to see a group walk into the newly smoothed bunker, hack out the balls, and walk out without touching a rake. I asked Eric if the contractors ever got frustrated seeing things like this and he replied it was considered job security. Think about the cost of this. Money/time spent re-doing maintenance unnecessarily can not be used to work on other things or upgrade conditions.

My thanks go to those out there who carefully, properly, repair ball marks in addition to their own. Who fill their divot and some around the same area. Who rake their footprints and divot in sand traps and also those around them. I was always told as a new golfer to leave the course in better shape than when I arrived. Never forgot that.

Much appreciation for taking the time to go into such detail.

I guess I was unaware that carts, even RA's, were allowed to drive on the course (I should have known I suppose)... and can easily/quickly grasp what you're saying.

Since these holes are so short, there is a lot less real estate for carts to disperse and the concentration must be pretty high in a lot of locations.

Given (and I'm just making an educated guess here) that there is a much higher % of players with RA tags, added to less 'fairway' to drive on...I can see where that could become a problem.

As for the bunkers and greens, I'm also guessing that there are a higher % of golfers with less experience playing the exec's and although the same lack of courtesy happens on the championship courses...I can see where the total numbers in a day would be much higher on these courses.

Along those lines, I wonder if there is an official count kept on how many golfers there are on each course (by type)...during an 'average' day?



Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts.

[rubicon]

Free golf for the rest of your life..................................