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-   -   Awful course conditions (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/golf-villages-216/awful-course-conditions-78956/)

glencus 06-03-2013 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeod (Post 685896)
Maybe because they're correct. The touring pros prefer a tight lie so they can control distance and spin. The links courses of Scotland are dependent on rain for irrigation in most cases and therefore tend to be hard and fast. You don't see those large, pelt divots on southern courses because the bermuda fairways tend to break up on impact.

But there is a happy medium between rock hard fairways and soft, grassy fairways and I think that's what is sought here.

Using this theory, how would you account for the fact that the Lopez Course was turned into exactly the opposite of what you describe for the recent LPGA Legends Tournament. Great pains were taken to grow the grass higher so the ball sits up in the fairways. Greens were about 11 on a stintmeter. The greens were soft and held shots. The course was pristine. It is now back to where it was for what I'll call resident conditions. I've played golf all over the world (yes, including Scotland) and have never seen conditions as bad as they regularly are under standard Villages Conditions. Oh, by the way, how many touring pros play here to warrant maintaining our courses in the ideal condition you describe. These courses are ideal for no one but residents, many of whom will defend how things are done whether right or wrong, a concept that many have not yet grasped. Oh yes, I've also played US Open Courses, a venue used for the Rider Cup and a course that hosted the PGA championship, a US Women,' Open venue and never observed "Resident Conditions" as I see here day in and day out..

Mikeod 06-03-2013 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 686105)
Using this theory, how would you account for the fact that the Lopez Course was turned into exactly the opposite of what you describe for the recent LPGA Legends Tournament. Great pains were taken to grow the grass higher so the ball sits up in the fairways. Greens were about 11 on a stintmeter. The greens were soft and held shots. The course was pristine. It is now back to where it was for what I'll call resident conditions. I've played golf all over the world (yes, including Scotland) and have never seen conditions as bad as they regularly are under standard Villages Conditions. Oh, by the way, how many touring pros play here to warrant maintaining our courses in the ideal condition you describe. These courses are ideal for no one but residents, many of whom will defend how things are done whether right or wrong, a concept that many have not yet grasped. Oh yes, I've also played US Open Courses, a venue used for the Rider Cup and a course that hosted the PGA championship, a US Women,' Open venue and never observed "Resident Conditions" as I see here day in and day out..

Did you miss the article in the paper that described the special work that was done to Lopez in preparation for the tournament? Do you realize that the tournament was played with overseeded fairways and greens? I played Lopez the Monday after the tournament and it was great, but it is not something that can be sustained on a daily basis with the amount of play here.

Probably the best comparison to what we have here may be the condition of Torrey Pines for the Open and for the regular tour event compared to the conditions the rest of the time as a municipal course with a lot of play. There is no comparison. It doesn't look like the same course.

It's clear that we cannot reach common ground in this discussion. I hope you enjoy your time here on and off the golf course.

nitehawk 06-03-2013 08:03 AM

i will enjoy my time both off and on the golf courses - mostly off the couses in TV - I will continue to knock the course conditions in TV until things change. What i gather from all of the experts is that the pros would love to come and play here in tv where the fairways are void of grass and hard as rock - so now they can get spin on the ball. you will need spin to stop you ball when it hits the rock hard green. i also gather that maybe the people from scotland or england would love to come and play also, as that is the way golf was meant to be played. i used to play tennis with a wooden racket and ski with 7 foot skis, but times change ---- i have not seen any pros practicing on our courses --- should be a great play to practice. i bow to the experts - so have a good time :bigbow:

Mikeod 06-03-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitehawk (Post 686183)
i will enjoy my time both off and on the golf courses - mostly off the couses in TV - I will continue to knock the course conditions in TV until things change. What i gather from all of the experts is that the pros would love to come and play here in tv where the fairways are void of grass and hard as rock - so now they can get spin on the ball. you will need spin to stop you ball when it hits the rock hard green. i also gather that maybe the people from scotland or england would love to come and play also, as that is the way golf was meant to be played. i used to play tennis with a wooden racket and ski with 7 foot skis, but times change ---- i have not seen any pros practicing on our courses --- should be a great play to practice. i bow to the experts - so have a good time :bigbow:

Sorry you have missed the point of this thread. Ranting and raving about course conditions on a message board that is independent of TV will accomplish nothing except raise blood pressures. From the input of other posters, it is apparent that contacting golf administration as an individual nets nothing. (Especially if terms such as ignorant, cheapskate, or uncaring are used.) There exists a volunteer group that has been effective in working with golf administration on the exec courses. Perhaps a similar group could be formed for the championship courses.

One concern with that is that we have no investment in the championship courses. They were not promised to us as the execs were. They are privately owned. Therefore, they have no obligation to form such a group, but there is no harm in trying. But the focus has to be on what WE (residents, golf administration, and ownership) can do to improve it.

So, my point is that abandoning TV courses is certainly your prerogative. But it is also certain to result in no improvement. Even if you multiply yourself by 100 or 200 or more, the loss of play you represent will go completely unnoticed.

Saying "Fix it!" and walking away won't do it.

mickey100 06-03-2013 12:00 PM

I agree. I think we need to bombard the golf adminstration people with phone calls, letters, etc., as well as letters to the Daily Sun. Keep that wheel squeaking or nothing will get done. And it doesn't hurt to keep up the comments and posts on TOTV. When potential buyers see the negative posts, and word gets back to the real estate salespeople and upwards to the Morses, it may help things along as well. Here is an email address to start with - thevillagesgolfdivision@gmail.com and an address and phone number:
Country Club Administration 352-753-3396 1000 Main St. Suite 248 32159

As MikeOD said, one person making a phone call now and then isn't going to cut it. Hundreds of phone calls and emails are going to get someone's attention.

nitehawk 06-04-2013 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickey100 (Post 686294)
I agree. I think we need to bombard the golf adminstration people with phone calls, letters, etc., as well as letters to the Daily Sun. Keep that wheel squeaking or nothing will get done. And it doesn't hurt to keep up the comments and posts on TOTV. When potential buyers see the negative posts, and word gets back to the real estate salespeople and upwards to the Morses, it may help things along as well. Here is an email address to start with - thevillagesgolfdivision@gmail.com and an address and phone number:
Country Club Administration 352-753-3396 1000 Main St. Suite 248 32159

As MikeOD said, one person making a phone call now and then isn't going to cut it. Hundreds of phone calls and emails are going to get someone's attention.

thank you for the information :BigApplause:- i will call and send email. maybe enough of us may help - it a lot better then arguing about bent grass compared to blue etc.

rubicon 06-04-2013 07:43 AM

I worked for a large corporation. It was so large that they had an internal market so they did not need to go outside to look for cnadidates to fill jobs.

The Villages has an internal market, residents, plenty of them who play golf.
Residents can vote with their feet. Apparnetly the vast majority are satisfied. My wife just took up golf. I took her to Baseline. She made comment that the rough at Baseline was better than the fairways in The Villages. This from a newbie

waynet 06-04-2013 08:17 AM

Rubicon,you hit the nail on the head. The Villages has a captive audience and I think an audience that for the most part doesn't care about the conditions because many know nothing else.

Ithreeputtoo 06-04-2013 08:54 AM

Lack of Watering
 
I agree that the course conditions are not good. I play both executive and championship courses and neither are in good shape. The tee boxes are so hard you cannot hardly put a tee in the ground and the fairways are like the cart path. I love living here but hope there will be changes in the way the courses are taken care of. I know we are suppose to get over 50 inches of rain a year and that we have had a lack of rain which would help so much. I am wondering if they are using all the water up on the new courses as they are being watered almost everyday and there may be some restrictions on how much water maybe used for golf courses. A few years back I gave up golf for a while do to the conditions at that time as well. I maybe getting back to that feeling soon.

mickey100 06-04-2013 10:01 AM

My complaints have mainly been with the championship courses. I have found the Executive courses to be in better shape, generally, than they used to be. Perhaps because of the resident committees. And the Executive golf is free, so I wouldn't expect the conditions for free golf to be as good as golf courses where you pay to play. Sadly, that is not the case. I played Southern Star yesterday, and with the exceptions of a few bad greens, the course was in better shape than Cane Garden was last week.

waynet 06-04-2013 11:27 AM

Cane Garden has been bad for almost 2 years. You would think that those responsible would try something else. But they just keep doing the same old stuff and Cane,a great layout,continues to suffer. We need the golf administrators to enter the 21st century. What are they afraid of?

Mikeod 06-04-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithreeputtoo (Post 686709)
I agree that the course conditions are not good. I play both executive and championship courses and neither are in good shape. The tee boxes are so hard you cannot hardly put a tee in the ground and the fairways are like the cart path. I love living here but hope there will be changes in the way the courses are taken care of. I know we are suppose to get over 50 inches of rain a year and that we have had a lack of rain which would help so much. I am wondering if they are using all the water up on the new courses as they are being watered almost everyday and there may be some restrictions on how much water maybe used for golf courses. A few years back I gave up golf for a while do to the conditions at that time as well. I maybe getting back to that feeling soon.

Randy,
They get a temporary increase in the allocation for a newly sprigged golf course. I think it's only for 30 days or so. They still have to pay extra for the water, but won't get fined for exceeding the allocation. So they don't need to steal water from the other courses for the ones in construction.

Bruiser1 06-04-2013 03:01 PM

g
 
:highfive:
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrudyM (Post 685094)
I just got through arguing with all my husbands childhood friends, that the villages would be better for our retirement than out here in Hawaii (We are visiting family as we do every May) because with the lower cost of living :$: and all the courses available he could play golf as often as he liked. I need to win this debate as they are pushing hard for us to live here and I hate Honolulu.

If course conditions are that bad on the 18's how bad are the more challenging of the exc courses.:cryin2: If one planned to play them to work on ones short game?

How much additional do I need to plan in the budget for off campus golf? And if you can't play in the villages why live there isn't golf the whole point.

You will find the off campus courses are very accommodating. If you go to Stone Crest for example you can play 18 with cart for u der 30 dollars . yes it's a mile north of the villages . It overlooks the villages.
About a mile east of Brownwood there is a country course named Continential. For a little over $17 (tax ) you will find a 18 hole course once frequented by Micky Mantle (his club was stuck in a tree off the 18th hole)
the day we were there the main broke and part of the fairway was roped off .
The people couldn't have been more accommodating or apologetic. The Pro drove out personally to give us a rain check. so 36 holes for 17 dollars is not too shabby.

mickey100 06-04-2013 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 686853)
Why do you people not understand that trying to get things improved here is not outrageous.

Totally agree. :BigApplause:

Warren Kiefer 06-04-2013 07:28 PM

Previous posting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruiser1 (Post 686860)
:highfive:

You will find the off campus courses are very accommodating. If you go to Stone Crest for example you can play 18 with cart for u der 30 dollars . yes it's a mile north of the villages . It overlooks the villages.
About a mile east of Brownwood there is a country course named Continential. For a little over $17 (tax ) you will find a 18 hole course once frequented by Micky Mantle (his club was stuck in a tree off the 18th hole)
the day we were there the main broke and part of the fairway was roped off .
The people couldn't have been more accommodating or apologetic. The Pro drove out personally to give us a rain check. so 36 holes for 17 dollars is not too shabby.

I recently posted my comments about the Villages championship courses being the most expensive with a radius of 25 miles. You would have thought I had called Mother Theresa nasty names, I was attacked severly and one replier suggested that I should move from the Villages. Golf course conditions in the Villages are generally poorer compared to the off campus courses. I also find the Golf Administration Staff to be much less cordial and helpful than the off campus courses administrators. We recently played Harbor Hills and Ocala Gold, the pro shop people (especially the pro at Harbor Hills) at both fascilities were more polite and helpful than we usually find in the Villages. You were instantly made to feel that they were happy you came to play their course. Nice way to start a gound of golf. As to the course conditions here in the Villages, I have watched the golf maintainence people do their thing in the Villages for years. What I have observed is the Villages maintenance people seem to be only reactive to problems as they arise. One does not have to be very intelligent to know that being reactive doesn't get the job done, what is necessary, especially with golf courses, you must be proactive. This means, preventing the problem, not always having to try to cure the problem...,

Mikeod 06-04-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 687002)
As to the course conditions here in the Villages, I have watched the golf maintainence people do their thing in the Villages for years. What I have observed is the Villages maintenance people seem to be only reactive to problems as they arise. One does not have to be very intelligent to know that being reactive doesn't get the job done, what is necessary, especially with golf courses, you must be proactive. This means, preventing the problem, not always having to try to cure the problem...,

That's a good observation. I can't speak for the championship courses, but last meeting of the exec group it was announced that they have developed a ten year plan for maintenance and refurbishment of the executive courses. This should reduce the inefficiency of reacting to problems by anticipating and heading them off. I think they had enough data from years back to set up time frames for reworking turf and irrigation as well as seasonal issues that have recurred. Since most of the same people are involved with the big courses, I would hope similar plans are being prepared if not already done. The work on Tierra may indicate it has been done.

graciegirl 06-05-2013 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickey100 (Post 686925)
Totally agree. :BigApplause:

FORE!!!!!!!!

Getting things improved here is VERY, VERY, Very, very, very, hard to do.

Because very few things need improving.

Now if "THEY" could teach me to hit a one iron as well as I do my six, you would have my attention. If "they" could make my paints capture the beauty of Shrandell's photographs, I would listen. If "they" were someone ANY of us have met we could thank them in person for continuing to improve this place as they go along. After all, the overwhelming percentage of all of The Villages was NOT here just 12 years ago.

I think "they" do very well trying to please us all.

Not that things can't be improved, but not much comes to my mind right now.

Our courses here are used and abused by a lot of rookie golfers and the water allowed to maintain the courses is not unlimited as it was on our courses in Ohio. We also have a lot of carts with handicapped stickers allowed to run up near the greens and that is necessary but not as frequently seen as in other areas. It also is much, much, much, less expensive, and that in itself is very nice...and there is just not ONE course to cuss on. We can spoil our good walk on 12 Championship and 30? executive courses.

Sand your divots and rake the traps.

Gracie, who LOVES it here

drcar 06-05-2013 05:15 AM

Its amazing one day people slam the villages for closing TDS and The Oaks to replace the greens and to do work. The next day they slam the villages for poor conditions. AND yes the cost is less off campus, BUT it is not always better. I played Harbor Hills 3 weeks ago, AWFUL! The staff were overly nice. but the course was VERY VERY bad. We, the golfers here need to understand that are conditions are caused by several factors. Lack of water and the amount of play. We complain when the courses are closed for maintenance or complain when they aerate the fairways and green. We can not have it both ways. Also the prices and conditions are SOMETIMES better off campus because they do not get the amount of play the Village’s courses get. There were over 3 million rounds of golf played in the Villages last year. And the last time I checked the Twilght golf deal after 5 is better then anywhere esle. I am not saying it is perfect here or anyone should not state the obvious when the conditions are not up to stantards But, ranting and raving is not the way, GET on the review committes, become active.

mickey100 06-05-2013 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynet (Post 686690)
Rubicon,you hit the nail on the head. The Villages has ...an audience that for the most part doesn't care about the conditions because many know nothing else.

I agree.

Russ_Boston 06-05-2013 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 686105)
Using this theory, how would you account for the fact that the Lopez Course was turned into exactly the opposite of what you describe for the recent LPGA Legends Tournament. Great pains were taken to grow the grass higher so the ball sits up in the fairways. Greens were about 11 on a stintmeter. The greens were soft and held shots. The course was pristine. It is now back to where it was for what I'll call resident conditions. I've played golf all over the world (yes, including Scotland) and have never seen conditions as bad as they regularly are under standard Villages Conditions. Oh, by the way, how many touring pros play here to warrant maintaining our courses in the ideal condition you describe. These courses are ideal for no one but residents, many of whom will defend how things are done whether right or wrong, a concept that many have not yet grasped. Oh yes, I've also played US Open Courses, a venue used for the Rider Cup and a course that hosted the PGA championship, a US Women,' Open venue and never observed "Resident Conditions" as I see here day in and day out..

I do think they need to let the grass grow a little higher. I think it would benefit everyone. The way it is now it actually slows play down because errant balls get into the 'rough' and keep right on rolling into trouble thus causing players to look (too long!) for their ball.

PS: It's 'RYDER' cup. Typo I'm sure.

glencus 06-05-2013 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 687098)
FORE!!!!!!!!

Getting things improved here is VERY, VERY, Very, very, very, hard to do.

Because very few things need improving.

Now if "THEY" could teach me to hit a one iron as well as I do my six, you would have my attention. If "they" could make my paints capture the beauty of Shrandell's photographs, I would listen. If "they" were someone ANY of us have met we could thank them in person for continuing to improve this place as they go along. After all, the overwhelming percentage of all of The Villages was NOT here just 12 years ago.

I think "they" do very well trying to please us all.

Not that things can't be improved, but not much comes to my mind right now.

Our courses here are used and abused by a lot of rookie golfers and the water allowed to maintain the courses is not unlimited as it was on our courses in Ohio. We also have a lot of carts with handicapped stickers allowed to run up near the greens and that is necessary but not as frequently seen as in other areas. It also is much, much, much, less expensive, and that in itself is very nice...and there is just not ONE course to cuss on. We can spoil our good walk on 12 Championship and 30? executive courses.

Sand your divots and rake the traps.

Gracie, who LOVES it here

This Thread is not a referendum on The Villages. It's about Golf Course Conditions. Your comments in that aspect of your response are exactly the reasons given by Golf Course Administrators to get complainers off their backs. This gets to the heart of the issue that most Villagers accept these conditions because they do not know any better.

graciegirl 06-05-2013 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 687124)
This Thread is not a referendum on The Villages. It's about Golf Course Conditions. Your comments in that aspect of your response are exactly the reasons given by Golf Course Administrators to get complainers off their backs. This gets to the heart of the issue that most Villagers accept these conditions because they do not know any better.

Thank you. I allowed a recent grievance to get the best of me. I will try to do better.

I have played a few courses here and about in my 40 some years of golfing. All I can say is the price is right and it is pretty amazing and wonderful to take your golf cart to all these halfway nice courses as you grow older and your game decays and it is nice to keep your greenbacks in the bank too for when they might need to take care of you 'round the clock.

It isn't golf as many of us knew it and it isn't like back home in many of the clubs some of us belonged to where they would upgrade the course and dock you thousands of dollars on top of the thousand dollar a month membership fee and the monthly restaurant charge even if you didn't eat and the cart fee and and playing with the same group all of the time, some of whom were unbearable. This was after some folks paid upwards of 50K to join, after being checked out thoroughly. Where everyone you knew also knew your handicap and where there was a dandy locker room and the clubs were on the cart waiting when you drove up... BUT....we still can go off campus and sojourn out to Pebble Beach, it too is a municipal course and we can pay them close to 600 bucks to play a round. The deer and the wind and the vistas are magnificent, the greens are like velvet and the rough is to be avoided and the fairways look like top grade Bigelow carpet. It is surrounded by some wonderful homes on 17 mile drive that are "point" houses and some of them are very not kept up but although windy there in Carmel it isn't freezing cold wind like at St. Andrews and well you know....

What do I know? I am told I am a shill for the developers.

I think I'm mad.

nitehawk 06-05-2013 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 687124)
This Thread is not a referendum on The Villages. It's about Golf Course Conditions. Your comments in that aspect of your response are exactly the reasons given by Golf Course Administrators to get complainers off their backs. This gets to the heart of the issue that most Villagers accept these conditions because they do not know any better.

:BigApplause: Please do not drink the kool aid :bigbow:

Mikeod 06-05-2013 07:58 AM

Today's Villages Voice had some figures that I find interesting. Last year there were 836,218 rounds of golf played on the championship courses. So, we are approaching 90,000 rounds on each course. ( I adjusted for Palmer since it gets significantly less play due to the higher fees I imagine. Could also be a factor in the condition as well.)

So, how does that volume compare to the volume on some of these outside courses people are promoting?

mulligan 06-05-2013 09:10 AM

Also, as far as mowing the fairways and rough, since they use dwarf bentgrass, probably only the weeds would get taller.

Mikeod 06-05-2013 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulligan (Post 687225)
Also, as far as mowing the fairways and rough, since they use dwarf bentgrass, probably only the weeds would get taller.

Fairways appear to be hybrid bermuda, probably tifway or Tifway II. I doubt they would use a dwarf strain on fairways because of the cart traffic.

djl8412 06-05-2013 10:31 AM

:confused:Let's see now: we've had inadequate rainfall but one of the most advanced irrigation systems able to transfer water to and from retention ponds to compensate but still have increasing poor course conditions. Yesterday, Bonifay became cart path only late in the afternoon because of standing water on many parts of the course. It couldn't handle a half-inch of rain in a 2-hour period. AMAZING!:shrug:

mickey100 06-05-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 687098)
FORE!!!!!!!!

Getting things improved here is VERY, VERY, Very, very, very, hard to do.

Because very few things need improving....
Our courses here are used and abused by a lot of rookie golfers and the water allowed to maintain the courses is not unlimited as it was on our courses in Ohio. We also have a lot of carts with handicapped stickers allowed to run up near the greens and that is necessary but not as frequently seen as in other areas. It also is much, much, much, less expensive, and that in itself is very nice...and there is just not ONE course to cuss on. We can spoil our good walk on 12 Championship and 30? executive courses.

Sand your divots and rake the traps.

Gracie, who LOVES it here

First of all, golf is not less less less expensive here than it was for me in New York state. And your comment about 12 "championship" courses is a moot point. What good is having all the courses if they are in poor condition? Our course up north had reciprocals with other clubs so we could play them for free, or just a cart fee. And the courses were much nicer than these down here, at approximately the same price. And as much as you might love the opportunity to take your own golf cart onto the golf course, don't forget you are paying for the cart and its maintenance, to do so.

Mikeod 06-05-2013 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djl8412 (Post 687267)
:confused:Let's see now: we've had inadequate rainfall but one of the most advanced irrigation systems able to transfer water to and from retention ponds to compensate but still have increasing poor course conditions. Yesterday, Bonifay became cart path only late in the afternoon because of standing water on many parts of the course. It couldn't handle a half-inch of rain in a 2-hour period. AMAZING!:shrug:

Not sure why you would be amazed. The dry, compacted ground will not soak up water like a sponge. That's how flash floods happen in the southwest deserts. This is not like the organic, rich soil you may find in a temperate climate. Last summer I played World Woods after a similar storm and there were places where water filled the sand traps and onto parts of the fairway even a day later. And that's one of the most highly rated courses in FL and has a fairly sandy base. It's not unusual.

graciegirl 06-05-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickey100 (Post 687270)
First of all, golf is not less less less expensive here than it was for me in New York state. And your comment about 12 "championship" courses is a moot point. What good is having all the courses if they are in poor condition? Our course up north had reciprocals with other clubs so we could play them for free, or just a cart fee. And the courses were much nicer than these down here, at approximately the same price. And as much as you might love the opportunity to take your own golf cart onto the golf course, don't forget you are paying for the cart and its maintenance, to do so.

The climate up north is different and if those courses had the traffic these courses have and the water restrictions, well things would be different. Different grass, different heat, different traffic. The prices here are reasonable. Not cheap and not expensive and I think that having all of these choices within a golf cart ride means something. The game of golf is played against one's best game and one does not have to have a course in perfect condition to enjoy it. Things could always be better and they also could be one h*** of a lot worse too.

djl8412 06-06-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeod (Post 687305)
Not sure why you would be amazed. The dry, compacted ground will not soak up water like a sponge. That's how flash floods happen in the southwest deserts. This is not like the organic, rich soil you may find in a temperate climate. Last summer I played World Woods after a similar storm and there were places where water filled the sand traps and onto parts of the fairway even a day later. And that's one of the most highly rated courses in FL and has a fairly sandy base. It's not unusual.

:blahblahblah: So why is the ground allowed to get so dry and compacted in the first place? Remember now: we supposedly have one of the most advanced irrigation systems in FL and these current conditions were not as common here in earlier years.barf

glencus 06-06-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djl8412 (Post 687959)
:blahblahblah: So why is the ground allowed to get so dry and compacted in the first place? Remember now: we supposedly have one of the most advanced irrigation systems in FL and these current conditions were not as common here in earlier years.barf

The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.

graciegirl 06-06-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 687988)
The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.


Noted.

Mikeod 06-06-2013 05:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by djl8412 (Post 687959)
:blahblahblah: So why is the ground allowed to get so dry and compacted in the first place? Remember now: we supposedly have one of the most advanced irrigation systems in FL and these current conditions were not as common here in earlier years.barf

Here is how they "allowed" the ground to get so hard. In case it's not clear, what I have posted is the actual rainfall for each month from January through May for 2006-2013. At the bottom is the historical average rainfall for those months. I quick look at the +/- number beside each month's rainfall shows that only one month in that period had more than average rainfall, and one month matched average. Every other month had a deficit. For the years shown, the average monthly deficit ranged from a low of 1.36 to a high of 3.04 inches. So, we've had below average rainfall in the months leading up to the hurricane season each year for the last 8 years. I don't care how advanced your irrigation system is, it cannot manufacture rainfall. Without rain, grass won't grow.

Now guess what the average number of rounds played on TV courses during those years did. Yup, it grew. So more rounds, more carts driving down the fairways, and less rain. Great for grass growing, NOT.

Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have ever been, an employee of golf administration or any of the maintenance contractors at TV.

Mikeod 06-06-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 687988)
The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.

Please refer to my post on the rainfall deficit over the last 8 years.

The rest of your post regarding course construction is so ludicrous it destroys any credence your argument may otherwise possess.

And it must be nice to be psychic and know in advance how course renovation will turn out. What are the numbers for the next Powerball? :D

gomoho 06-06-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 687988)
The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.

Wow - I wouldn't want to spend my retirement thinking "I've made my bed, not I have to lie in it". Houses sell like hotcakes here - .

waynet 06-06-2013 08:46 PM

I thought the golf powers had a real good opportunity to try the newer grasses at Tieera Del Sol or the next new 27 hole complex. It seems all agree its all about the water. If there are new strains of grasses that use far less water why not use them? I don't get it. More people,more carts,more rounds, less water but lets use the same grasses and methods anyhow. What sense does that make?

glencus 06-07-2013 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeod (Post 688048)
Please refer to my post on the rainfall deficit over the last 8 years.

The rest of your post regarding course construction is so ludicrous it destroys any credence your argument may otherwise possess.

And it must be nice to be psychic and know in advance how course renovation will turn out. What are the numbers for the next Powerball? :D

Oh, so the lack of rainfall at all very well conditioned courses up and down the road outside TV is also the reason they are maintained in much better condition?

glencus 06-07-2013 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomoho (Post 688050)
Wow - I wouldn't want to spend my retirement thinking "I've made my bed, not I have to lie in it". Houses sell like hotcakes here - .

Very astute comment. Right on the subject of golf course conditions.

mickey100 06-07-2013 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencus (Post 688201)
Very astute comment. Right on the subject of golf course conditions.

I agree. I am really sick of that type of comment, not just in this thread, but others as well.


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