Your comment about Sawgrass is well taken, but here in a The Villages, Palmer seems to be in good condition all year round, except during the aerification
times, while other courses have many periods of poor to mediocre conditions. It has been like this for many years. Are the powers that be directing more of the water allotment to Palmer for watering? And it just always seems better maintained with fairways that are lusher, nicer greens, nice sand in the traps compared to some courses. Why can't all the courses be kept to such a standard? And yes, many of the courses are improving, but our enjoyment will be short lived, as aerification starts in August.

Executive Course Update...played Pelican yesterday, greens were disappointing. The 7th green that had been partially resodded did look good. Played Turtle Mound today, for the most part greens were in very good condition.

I agree that Palmer always seems to be in better shape at any time of year than the other courses. I've been told by people at GMS I have no reason to doubt, it receives no more water than the other courses. The only difference that leaps out is the lesser amount of play compared to the others. Even during the high season, tee times are more available on Palmer. Reduced cart traffic on the fairways will help conditions noticeably.

One concern I have is the tendency, IMO, of TV to open courses too soon. Havana was opened early understandably due to the damage to Mallory by the tornado. But, except for Pensacola nine, Bonifay was opened before it had a chance to really grow in. Fairways were really sparse, and the cart traffic really made it worse. Some courses may never recover from that double-whammy unless you close them entirely for the season. Same with Evans Prairie and I fear the same with Belle Glade. On the executive side, Palmetto was opened early, and they admit that, by grossly overseeding the greens, which hindered the development of the base bermuda so that conditions were poor throughout the first year plus. I understand the problem of frustrated residents who live or drive by courses that appear ready but remain closed. But the view has to be more long term.

Good points.

Just wondering why not apply for a position of consultant to the golf course management companies, here in TV ??

:bowdown:

again it's all about the money. Why open these courses early? Money. Why use the same old grasses and technology? Money. Priority members are getting screwed and there really is no one to talk to about the issues. As someone said they have a captive audience.

You certainly can't blame all the poor conditioned courses on high usage, although it certainly plays a part. I remember back in 2006, Orange blossom was in great condition. OB never seems to get the level of play that courses south of 466 get. Then after a few years, it too deteriorated, and i remember speaking with an Ambassador who told me that they were having problems with the company doing the maintenance on that particular course. There were many complaints to the head of golf operations, and I heard they ultimately fired the company and got someone new in there, and conditions improved again.

And that also begs the question, if the courses are overplayed to the point they can't keep them in good condition, and we know that during the high season not everyone can get a tee time, doesn't that suggest that perhaps they need more golf courses per capita?

LOL. I do understand that. It's just that this is a community of around 100-120K with the equivalent of sixteen 18 hole golf courses. (I considered two 27 hole courses as the equivalent of three 18 hole courses.) I can't believe there is another place of similar population with that many courses within its boundaries. And that's not even considering the executive courses. If you ask someone if sixteen courses are enough for a general population of 100-120K, they would think about half that would be fine. The difference is that we are able to play every day, if desired, whereas areas with a smaller retiree population don't have the everyday volume.

Please understand I am not trying to minimize your concerns. It just seems hard to consider this place has too few golf courses.

I can't figure out who is smarter, you or your wife.
 

Well said.

I'm not comparing us to other places,where as you are aware , people are working so they are not available to play all day long most days. We are a unique community and one that is being marketed to golfers, so naturally we will have a high percentage of the population that plays golf. Truthfully,I don't think we need more courses, but there is no question in my mind that they need to take better care of what they have. But if one's argument is that they cannot make golf course conditions that are good most of the time because the courses get too much play, then reason dictates they don't have enough courses to accommodate the golfers . Just sayin.

I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, but with the exception of some occasional maintenance downtime, shouldn't golf courses in Florida be expected to handle full player loads every day?

What is so special about Florida................the 90+ temperature?

Heheh. As a Buckeye, I can tell you that Winter golf habits are slightly different in northern states vs Florida.

Yeah, you'd think.

It's all about the money. Golf courses take up lots of land. Land that can make more money by building houses on it. The Morse family is all about money plain and simple,nothing wrong with that unless greed sets in.

If that were the case, why wouldn't they just start closing golf courses and building houses on them?

The fact is that the golf courses are a big factor in why people buy homes here. So from that perspective, they are just as important and profitable as the homes themselves.

There is absolutely no valid excuse for the atrocious greens throughout The Villages.The maintenance companies hired to do this job simply isn't doing it and should be fired.With the amount of play now(very little) these courses are getting and the amount of rain we've had over the past 6 weeks or so these courses should be pristine. First off I believe they mow the fairways way too low and the greens just are neglected. I wish there were someone us residents could go to to voice our opinions and be heard. This just doesn't seem to be the case. The powers to be just don't seem to care. Maybe we should all boycott playing Villages courses for a month so someone will start listening. SO Frustrating!!!

That is one of the nice things about Palmer, in addition to their great greens, is that the grass does seem longer on the fairways than other courses around. I don't get it. If the grass were allowed to grow a little longer it might use less water, as the roots would be shaded a little. Every time I play at Cane Garden I feel like I'm hitting off hardpan.

well said Bosoxfan

Absolutely agree. It's bad course management IMHO. We don't need the fairways and 'rough' cut so low. Or go natural on the rough like they did at Pinehurst and many other courses. Less water needed that way. As it regards Palmer: not that much better, many of the greens are marginally better but still some rough spots and spotty fungus growth around the edges.


Well - off to play Heron on men's day - the greens last week were pathetic - here's hoping!

You make some good points.
Just wondering, have you contacted anyone at Country Club Administration?
How do you know "the powers to be just don't seem to care"?

I just got off the phone with golf administration 352-753-3396 and was told they are well aware of the situation and are diligently working on fixing the situation. Of course all I did was talk to the woman that answered the phone as everyone else is in a meeting. I did however send this message using the contact us portion of golfthevillages.com.

Hi ,
As a resident of the villages I'm trying to get my voice & many others voices heard on our concern for the conditions of all the courses throuhgout our community. In the past 6 weeks I have been playing various courses both executives & championships and have yet to find a course I would rate over a 2 on a 1 to five scale. What's the problem? The courses I have played just outside The Villages are exceptional & I don't understand why ours can't be. In fact we should be the standard for all other courses within a 100 mile radius of The Villages.Please consider firing those responsible for these conditions & hiring companies & leaders on your staff that can rectify this situation. This is not acceptible! Thank You for listening . Correspondence in return is appreciated. Thank You.

I'll keep you all posted if I get a response.

I would have asked the "woman on the phone" to have a manager call me back.

You can call & do that the number is352-753-3396 .Please let us know the response.She tried to hook me into his mailbox but I was disconnected!

I just got this response from the golf administration::

Thanks for taking the time to share your concerns and thoughts. What we are experiencing (and we are frustrated as well) is a more intense and prolonged transition period than normal. May and June will always be challenging months with transition, followed by aerfication, but this year in particular, it’s been more challenging than any we can remember. Our contractors are working diligently to return all the courses to acceptable condition ASAP, several have already made it back, and the others are well on their way. I can assure you that accountability is in full measure with our contractors. Good news, this should all be behind us soon. We appreciate your patience and support, and certainly understand your frustration and concern.

It sounded nice.

Thanks

They say soon. I'll take some pics in 3-4 weeks and we'll see. As my mom used to say: "Prepare for the worst - hope for the best"

that response is total garbage. I know I called earlier in the year and got the same response.

What could they have said that would have satisfied you? "We fired everybody"?

While you may disagree it's a transition problem, they have admitted the courses are not in the condition residents or they expect. They didn't say "What problem?"

While you may disagree that some courses have recovered, there is evidence from some posts in this thread that they have seen improvement.

Maybe not all but some heads should roll for allowing this situation to get so bad!! I just hope that once they consider things rectified that we will be the envy of the courses around here. Not the laughing stock we are now!

Just got back from 9 at Bonita. I should have taken a pic of 3 of those greens - no way they come back in a few weeks.

So they basically said "Don't worry, be happy". I would have hoped they could have acknowledged the problem a little more strongly and accepted responsibility. Instead its just "challenging" conditions they have no control over, but things will get better eventually. Hmmm.

Mikeod, I don't believe them. I do not think they care even a little. This is not a new issue. It's been going on for a few years now. As stated earlier they have a captive audience. It is the same set of excuses all the time and conditions may improve for awhile but they will deteriorate again,they ALWAYS do. They seem to think we are the only courses facing challenging conditions.

Lets see...don't quote someone and disagree with sarcasm...got it...it's okay to attack "the man" and say they are lying, don't care, etc....hmmm...has anyone(who cares about this)actually spoken(face-to-face/not by phone or email)to "the man" about the situation or is it all hearsay? I've played quite a few of the courses(champion and exec.'s)...some pretty sad greens and fairways and some really good ones too...I've worked on a few courses(not just played)and understand some of the issues they are having...but not all...until one of you actually does a face-to-face with a person who's really in charge then you accomplish nada, nothing, nil, zip, zilch etc.

So instead of just beating the brush and fanning the flames it might be that one of you will make the big leap and find some real answers. Let us know...as for me...I'll just keep playing and shooting good scores on the poorly manicured courses....

If this offends I am sorry...really....but as you know all you need do is just complain to the site folks and they'll delete this post....and there still will be no "real" answers....just saying...

My husband said pretty much the same thing when I asked him last night. He plays the Championship courses and plays executives with me. I said there is a thread where people are saying the greens are in awful shape. And he said, "Some are and some aren't".

There have been some pretty helpful and interesting and eye opening posts on this thread and some expected negativity from the usual folks. And some unexpected negativity. So there must be a problem. I will keep reading and learning from all of you.

No disrespect intended, but how does speaking with someone on the phone versus meeting them in person really differ when you're dealing with customer service people? They seem to have a response that they are giving out to the residents, and they'll offer the same response in person or on the phone.

I don't think the golf administration people are lying, I'm sure they would like to see the courses in good shape, but many of the residents are getting sick of the same excuses year after year. Many residents are not members of TOTV but I play golf in some large groups, and I hear the comments. The response from Administration is always challenging conditions, lack of water, heavy play, blah, blah, and yet there are other courses in the area which seem to be able to surmount these challenges quite readily. It does seem to point towards money and/or maintenance practices. When a community is marketed heavily as a golf community, but the golf courses don't measure up, of course there will be discontent among the avid golfers.

Well said. But you will soon hear that you are wrong..................