Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Golf in The Villages (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/golf-villages-216/)
-   -   Executive Courses with Fluffy Lies (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/golf-villages-216/executive-courses-fluffy-lies-142140/)

tomwed 02-04-2015 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred53 (Post 1006772)
and the ability to adapt to different conditions is one of the things that make it such a challenge. If you don't have to ability to hit off of tight lies then perhaps you could practice that aspect of the game more often.

It isn't the problem with the course conditions....it's the lack of imagination and talent of the player. Most anyone can hit/chip from a fluffy lie(as you call it)...it takes a really good "golfer" to master many different conditions.

Good luck. Oh and you often see professionals in PGA tour events using putters from tight lies off of the greens...if they can practice and excel at that perhaps you can too.
Thank-you
I never said I was talented or good. I only said I was experienced. I played for 50 years and coached for 35. My question was about why some courses in my area have fluffy lies and some do not.
The tight lies are everywhere beyond the tee except from the rough.
How old are you?

tomwed 02-04-2015 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1006758)
When people say that they are a very experienced golfer, I assume that to mean that they are a very good player which I guess may or may not be the case.
The fact is however that good players prefer tight lies. I was a pretty decent player before I was forced to retire because of some physical issues. I grew up playing golf in New England where we had mostly blue grass fairways that could not be cut as short as the Bermuda grass we have here. I never realized that I was getting flier on almost every shot until I came to play in Florida.
Since then, a lot of the better courses up north have been transitioning over to bent grass fairways which can be cut down.
For years, Jack Nicklaus refuse to play the tour stop at Pleasant Valley Country Club in Sutton MA because he said that it was impossible to control a ball from blue grass fairways.
If you can't hit a shot from a Bermuda or bent fairway, you need to take some lessons to improve your technique.
I attended a clinic with short game guru, Stan Utley. Stan talked about the bounce on a club and the fallacy that you need low bounce to hit shots off of tight lies. The demonstrate this, he hit a 58 degree wedge with 12 degrees of bounce off of cement. He was able to hit high soft shots from the cement. Even with 12 degrees of bounce, if the ball is struck properly, the leading edge will be well below the center of the ball. It's not the conditions or the club, it's having, or lacking, the proper technique.
If pros prefer a tight lie it's because they have mastered the skill and not because it's easy.
I'm sure Stan Utley has better hand and eye coordination than I do. I just want to feel good about my game and not win any tournaments.
My point was that some courses in the same area, and the same age give the golfer a fluffier lie and some do not.

DougB 02-04-2015 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwed (Post 1006781)
If pros prefer a tight lie it's because they have mastered the skill and not because it's easy.
I'm sure Stan Utley has better hand and eye coordination than I do. I just want to feel good about my game and not win any tournaments.
My point was that some courses in the same area, and the same age give the golfer a fluffier lie and some do not.
I'm not a golfer and know nothing about the game, but if all courses were the same, what would be the purpose of playing different ones?

Polar Bear 02-04-2015 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1006593)
In an ideal world you are hitting your chips with a descending blow so it really shouldn't matter whether you have a tight lie. I can't do that on a consistent basis so out comes the putter! I didn't hit a single chip last sunday at Palmetto - all putts from around the green.

Okay, I'll include your entire post. Still doesn't change my reaction to the it-really-shouldn't-matter-whether-you-have-a-tight-lie part. [emoji15]

But please don't be upset. I'm just having fun. And it's a reflection on my short game...not yours. [emoji4] (Although I'll bet I'm not the only one who feels that way about chipping off a tight lie...heheh.)

tomwed 02-04-2015 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougB (Post 1006783)
I'm not a golfer and know nothing about the game, but if all courses were the same, what would be the purpose of playing different ones?
It's a good question.
I want to win the game. I want to beat the course. Better than par wins. If the course wants me to hit off a lie that sits on the ground and not elevated on the grass that's cheating and I loose interest.
I don't care how anyone else plays.
It's me against the course.
Please remember that the best part of golf for me is not the game.

tuccillo 02-04-2015 11:41 PM
Yes, exactly, a tough shot for many people because it plays with your mind - I worry about hitting thin or fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwed (Post 1006657)
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A descending blow on a tight lie is very difficult for me to control. If I hit it thin it rolls over the green. A full swing on a tight lie is a little easier. Both are low percentage shots.

All good advice about hitting a tight lie that I'll try.

I'll need to get some tennis balls.

I have an extra cheap pitching wedge I'm going to try hitting a ball off a 2 x 4.

When the ball is sitting up there is an extra half inch and it's a much higher percentage shots.

mulligan 02-05-2015 06:35 AM
The reason the lies seem tighter here is that the grass is dormant in winter. The par four fairways are overseeded with rye grass, the par three holes have overseeded tee boxes and greens only. When we were in drought conditions a couple of years ago, I purchased a chipper (basically a lofted putter) that has the same result as a 6 or 7 iron bump and run shot. Great for tight lies. Stick around until June or July, and you'll see vastly improved conditions. By the way, there are 4 contractors that handle golf course maintenance in TV, down from 9. Much easier to manage. GMS is working to achieve more consistency throughout the villages.

Bay Kid 02-05-2015 07:44 AM
These lies are great for practicing a bump and run shot.

fred53 02-05-2015 08:23 AM
When you said experienced....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwed (Post 1006776)
Thank-you
I never said I was talented or good. I only said I was experienced. I played for 50 years and coached for 35. My question was about why some courses in my area have fluffy lies and some do not.
The tight lies are everywhere beyond the tee except from the rough.
How old are you?
I made no assumption as to whether you were or were not a good player. If you've played for 50 years(coaching doesn't imply expertise in all areas of golf shots)I'd have thought you'd have experienced most grass conditions...that said it becomes clearer that you want golf to be easier since your problem with the lack of fluffy lies most likely reflects a tendency to "yip" those nasty tight lie shots...the varied conditions are due to the over seeding with winter rye grass in the aprons of the greens(tees, par 4 fairways and greens get the same treatment)...it grows differently depending on soil conditions, course maintenance and amount of play. Ergo: when it comes up sparsely the ball still sits down...it's also one reason the greens(especially Executive)are bumpy and lack speed consistency....I've worked at plenty of courses...

I'm 61...you? I've played for over 50 years and am a fairly accomplished amateur player...I practice 3/4x/wk(I like it) and my game fluctuates from sub par rounds to low 80's.

Knowing why the conditions vary was perhaps a way to start an internet conversation so you must expect the variety of answers...this is mine...:ho:

tuccillo 02-05-2015 12:11 PM
The point I was trying to make is that if you have good technique you can chip off of concrete - I can't because my technique is somewhat lacking. If you chip better with the ball sitting up on grass that could indicate that you tend to "scoop" the ball instead of hit down and letting the club face hit the ball first. If your technique is "scooping", bad things will tend to happen with tight lies. This is not a criticism of anyone's game - just an observation based on my own shortcomings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 1006787)
Okay, I'll include your entire post. Still doesn't change my reaction to the it-really-shouldn't-matter-whether-you-have-a-tight-lie part. [emoji15]

But please don't be upset. I'm just having fun. And it's a reflection on my short game...not yours. [emoji4] (Although I'll bet I'm not the only one who feels that way about chipping off a tight lie...heheh.)

tomwed 02-05-2015 01:51 PM
I found out that if the grass is very short it needs less water. That explains why it's short on so many courses.

That's what I do. I scoop it up. I'm good at scooping and making flop shots in taller grass.

I read a lot and looked at different videos. I played this morning at Sweetgum. I took practice swings until it was right. It helped a little.

Now I'm trying a pitch and run approach. I'm going to try to pick the club that works with a specific swing speed. The swing speed will be one that if I hit it thin it will roll up to the pin or if I hit it correctly it will fly and roll to the pin. A smaller swing will mean the results will not be as bad if I thin shot it.

I'm playing Bogart at 3pm.

graciegirl 02-05-2015 03:14 PM
I am getting rather good with my putter from 10-15 yards out. They don't ask HOW, they ask HOW Many.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr 02-05-2015 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougB (Post 1006783)
I'm not a golfer and know nothing about the game, but if all courses were the same, what would be the purpose of playing different ones?
Good point. But also one of the challenges of the game is to be able to adapt and play from different lies.

steamdogman 02-05-2015 04:22 PM
fluffy lies
 
Good Lord guys and ladies, you are playing Executive Golf Courses that get more rounds of golf per year than any golf course you probably have played. The staff that takes care of the Executive Courses are the same people who take care of the Championship Courses. They treat Executive Courses the same way, and over the last year Golf Management has changed the companies and I believe for the better. I work at both Bogart/Bacall and Pelican/Heron and have noticed many great changes over the past few months. One has to look at the number of rounds played at Executive Courses, particularly this time of year. Accept the fact that the more players, the courses are going to suffer. Instead of knocking these courses, knock the people who do not rake traps, do not take care of ball marks on the greens.

rubicon 02-05-2015 04:26 PM
I am a golfer. I take golf courses as I find them


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