Golf Pace of Play. Keep up, or Time Par

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  #16  
Old 08-15-2021, 06:06 AM
Laker14 Laker14 is online now
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Originally Posted by TheTourVan View Post
I’ve spent 20 years working in golf and traveled the country visiting golf courses. Two things I have learned.

1. No golfer ever thinks they are slow.
2. Nearly every golfer is slow.
Well, if you think about #2 a bit, you might come to the conclusion that if nearly "every" golfer is slow, the standard for what is slow is off quilter. We can't all be above average, but we can't all be below average either.
Which is why a "time par" is valuable. "Fast" and "Slow" are relative terms. A time par sheet is not subjective. You are ether "on time" or you are not.
I've never been an ambassador, but I would think it would make their job easier. No need to be nasty, just informative.
  #17  
Old 08-15-2021, 06:10 AM
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Golf should be enjoyable, even bad golf.
  #18  
Old 08-15-2021, 06:21 AM
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I rather enjoy having all those nice people behind me waving and cheering me on!
  #19  
Old 08-15-2021, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Laker14 View Post
Well, if you think about #2 a bit, you might come to the conclusion that if nearly "every" golfer is slow, the standard for what is slow is off quilter. We can't all be above average, but we can't all be below average either.
Which is why a "time par" is valuable. "Fast" and "Slow" are relative terms. A time par sheet is not subjective. You are ether "on time" or you are not.
I've never been an ambassador, but I would think it would make their job easier. No need to be nasty, just informative.
It continues to evolve sadly. The norm has gone from 4 to 4.5. Simple to play ready golf but very few do. Instead drive to a ball with partner. Wait until hit and then go to next ball. Instead of drive to first and drop off on way to second. There is a reason golf speeds picked up dramatically with single riders.
  #20  
Old 08-15-2021, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TheTourVan View Post
It continues to evolve sadly. The norm has gone from 4 to 4.5. Simple to play ready golf but very few do. Instead drive to a ball with partner. Wait until hit and then go to next ball. Instead of drive to first and drop off on way to second. There is a reason golf speeds picked up dramatically with single riders.
On average when our foursome were pretty much single riders with the exception of a married couple playing we actually timed out 8 to 11 minutes faster a round on the executive courses. Less opportunity to chit chat and you could concentrate on what you were to do on your next shot.
  #21  
Old 08-15-2021, 08:40 AM
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Golf should be enjoyable, even bad golf.
for most of us it is not a timed event......
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2021, 10:43 AM
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2021, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Two Bills View Post
I rather enjoy having all those nice people behind me waving and cheering me on!
I agree! I have a lot of fans back there who seem to think I'm #1!!!
  #24  
Old 08-15-2021, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TheTourVan View Post
It continues to evolve sadly. The norm has gone from 4 to 4.5. Simple to play ready golf but very few do. Instead drive to a ball with partner. Wait until hit and then go to next ball. Instead of drive to first and drop off on way to second. There is a reason golf speeds picked up dramatically with single riders.
I'm not suggesting that the pace on the time par sheet should be 4.5 hours, necessarily. Certainly not for a private club where 99% of the players know the course.
However, for a public facility, with lots of players who may not know the course, you have to add a bit of time, I think.
Also, if the greens are cut fast, and the pins in slopey positions, hey, you have to expect a lot of 3, and maybe 4 putts. That slows things down. I don't think it's right to do that and expect players who have paid a greens fee to give up after two or three putts. If you set up the course that way, you have to expect things will be slow.
The object of the game is to PUT THE BALL INTO THE HOLE. If you make it really hard to do that, it's going to take longer.
People who give putts, and take putts, have no standing to complain about slow play. They aren't really playing the game, are they?
Sometimes people need to remember the "object" of the game is to put the ball into the hole. It is not a race.
The "purpose" of the game, for most of us, is to have an enjoyable, and social time.
Having said all of that, there is a time when one should just "pick it up"...

The time par sheet should be a good guide to that point.
You know, a course could make it's time par 3:45. Post it, advertise it, and then enforce it. Then the rabbits would have a place they could play, and they'd have a legitimate gripe when players take 4 hours.
I've never seen that though. Public facilities don't want to alienate potential customers, but they might do well with enough fast players being attracted to the place.
  #25  
Old 08-15-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Laker14 View Post
I'm not suggesting that the pace on the time par sheet should be 4.5 hours, necessarily. Certainly not for a private club where 99% of the players know the course.
However, for a public facility, with lots of players who may not know the course, you have to add a bit of time, I think.
Also, if the greens are cut fast, and the pins in slopey positions, hey, you have to expect a lot of 3, and maybe 4 putts. That slows things down. I don't think it's right to do that and expect players who have paid a greens fee to give up after two or three putts. If you set up the course that way, you have to expect things will be slow.
The object of the game is to PUT THE BALL INTO THE HOLE. If you make it really hard to do that, it's going to take longer.
People who give putts, and take putts, have no standing to complain about slow play. They aren't really playing the game, are they?
Sometimes people need to remember the "object" of the game is to put the ball into the hole. It is not a race.
The "purpose" of the game, for most of us, is to have an enjoyable, and social time.
Having said all of that, there is a time when one should just "pick it up"...

The time par sheet should be a good guide to that point.
You know, a course could make it's time par 3:45. Post it, advertise it, and then enforce it. Then the rabbits would have a place they could play, and they'd have a legitimate gripe when players take 4 hours.
I've never seen that though. Public facilities don't want to alienate potential customers, but they might do well with enough fast players being attracted to the place.
Easier said than done. It’s easy to say enforce it until you tell someone they are behind (remember rule #1) and ask them to pick up the pace or move to the next hole.

Slow play is literally the most selfish act on the golf course. Those who say I’m out there to enjoy myself you are right. But if someone can’t enjoy themselves in the proper pace, then they either need to let groups through or be a bit more ready.

It is close to impossible to police anymore with the righteousness that exists. Sorry for the ranting and when I was down in TV it honestly wasn’t that bad for my visit but as the game has grown this year the times are getting out of control. In some areas of the country expecting to finish 9 holes in less than 3 hours is a miracle.

Single carts are the future and with that will come an additional expense for courses. They will try to pass that on, but more tee times during the day due to faster rounds should pick up most of the cost…
  #26  
Old 08-15-2021, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TheTourVan View Post
Easier said than done. It’s easy to say enforce it until you tell someone they are behind (remember rule #1������) and ask them to pick up the pace or move to the next hole.

Slow play is literally the most selfish act on the golf course. Those who say I’m out there to enjoy myself you are right. But if someone can’t enjoy themselves in the proper pace, then they either need to let groups through or be a bit more ready.

It is close to impossible to police anymore with the righteousness that exists. Sorry for the ranting and when I was down in TV it honestly wasn’t that bad for my visit but as the game has grown this year the times are getting out of control. In some areas of the country expecting to finish 9 holes in less than 3 hours is a miracle.

Single carts are the future and with that will come an additional expense for courses. They will try to pass that on, but more tee times during the day due to faster rounds should pick up most of the cost…
I can think of at least 3 reasons for the increasingly slow pace:
1. Not being "ready"...i.e. gabbing when one should be preparing, and playing
2. Courses increasingly relying on fast greens, and slopey greens to "toughen" the course up as equipment has made the distances less daunting
3. hackers emulating the pros' pre shot routines.

Which of those do you think has the biggest impact on slowing recreational golf down. Or do you see some other issues as well?
  #27  
Old 08-15-2021, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Laker14 View Post
I can think of at least 3 reasons for the increasingly slow pace:
1. Not being "ready"...i.e. gabbing when one should be preparing, and playing
2. Courses increasingly relying on fast greens, and slopey greens to "toughen" the course up as equipment has made the distances less daunting
3. hackers emulating the pros' pre shot routines.

Which of those do you think has the biggest impact on slowing recreational golf down. Or do you see some other issues as well?
It’s 1 and 3 but there are many many others. Continuously searching for lost balls. I don’t think fast greens have as much of an impact, as others think. 8 minute tee time separations. I could go on and on, but it really comes down to being ready when it’s your turn, rather than needing to drive to your ball or find a club or take your 7 waggles snd 3 practice swings, etc. don’t forget glove off and on 15 times a hole and Headcovers on and off 3-4 times per hole. The entire thing adds up. It’s a shame too, because very few do it out of ill intent.

But think about this. If you take just 30 seconds before each shot to align, practice swing, etc and 50 strokes per round (not counting putting which is even slower), that’s an additional 25 minutes to your time.
  #28  
Old 08-15-2021, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker14 View Post
Regardless of how fast they play?
What if they are a 3-some?
What if they play in 3 hours and 15 minutes? Why do I have to play that fast?

Why is their chosen pace the law for everyone who follows?
You are spot on. A timed pace is the only pace that makes sense and is also “fair”.
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Last edited by justjim; 08-15-2021 at 02:31 PM.
  #29  
Old 08-15-2021, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker14 View Post
I can think of at least 3 reasons for the increasingly slow pace:
1. Not being "ready"...i.e. gabbing when one should be preparing, and playing
2. Courses increasingly relying on fast greens, and slopey greens to "toughen" the course up as equipment has made the distances less daunting
3. hackers emulating the pros' pre shot routines.

Which of those do you think has the biggest impact on slowing recreational golf down. Or do you see some other issues as well?
First of all, there are ONLY SLOW greens in The Villages, so take #2 off the list.
#1 is part of it, but by far#3 is the main cause-----5 practice swings, 2 minutes to line up a putt, etc.
And of course my favorite-----people parking 30 yards away from their ball, taking 5 practice swings, then going back to their cart (at a snails pace) to get another club, then 5 more practice swings.......
  #30  
Old 08-15-2021, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by golfing eagles View Post
First of all, there are ONLY SLOW greens in The Villages, so take #2 off the list.
#1 is part of it, but by far#3 is the main cause-----5 practice swings, 2 minutes to line up a putt, etc.
And of course my favorite-----people parking 30 yards away from their ball, taking 5 practice swings, then going back to their cart (at a snails pace) to get another club, then 5 more practice swings.......
I wasn't intending to confine the discussion to just the Villages golf, but golf in general. I will say that we played Lopez at least twice last winter when the greens were fast enough that if you were above the hole, you weren't going to stop some of those putts anywhere but in the cup, or off the green. But that's rare. Play was very slow those days, BTW, while people 4 putted.
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