I walk most of the championship courses and have never once held up play. I am usually at the next tee box waiting for my teammates. There is no reason for anybody to hold up play. Hit your ball and move on. If I can do it on foot, it can be done in a cart.

There use to be a guy in one group I played with that, before he hit the ball, would lean on his club "in the fairway" and start to tell us a story about when he "lived back up north." ARRRRGGGGGGHHHH. I've played with guys who "don't care" that they are holding up play. They insist that they'll play at their own pace and "screw" everybody else.

Proper pace of play is not "hurry" it is the normal pace. It's not hard to do. Just play the game and move on.

Well said, think of others while on the course.

As others have pointed out, it is not about handicaps but about pace of play.... play ready golf, pick up when you need to (no need to play till it's in the hole when you've already hit it and hit it and hit it unless you're in a tournament where you have no choice), save the stories for the clubhouse, limit practice swings (you're either gonna hit it or miss it so practice on the practice areas instead), don't spend all day "reading" the putt, replacing head covers and the club back in the bag, etc. Some of the slowest players are the lower handicap "experienced" players. Many need to remember that they are not putting for a Green Jacket on every putt and don't need to take 5 practice swings and then change clubs and do it again on their other shots.

Keeping up does not mean playing fast nor is golf about seeing how fast you can get around the course. Isn't it acceptable here for faster players to "play through" but only if there is anywhere for them to go because it is not always the group directly ahead that is the problem. Sometimes they are waiting, too.

BTW, these same things apply on the executive courses as well so it's not just about the championship courses.

If you watch golf then you know, some of golf's slowest players are on tour and frequently get clocked and sometimes even penalized.

Hey

I'm with you!! I live in Southern California and would love to have a 4.5 round. We average about 5 hours and that's a marvel.

I can hardly wait to live in the Villages, I hope the Neja golfers will not tailgate me.

But if they do, I'll encourage them to play through and they can torment the next group.

I'm a long hitter and need to wait for the group to clear, I do not want to hurt anyone. Sometimes my waiting aggravates the group behind me, especially men, but when they see how far I hit the ball they quiet down.

Simple manners and patience will go a long way.

J

Speed up play....play the right t
 

As a former TV Ambassador/Starter I can attest to the fact that there is slow play out there....at any time of the year. A lot of it has to do with the experience level of the golfer, not undertaanding the various things once can do to "play ready golf" and keep play morning.....but the most prevelant one I witnessed so many many times.....too many guys have too much testosterone.....i.e. way too many guys -play from a T box (Executive as well as Championship course) that they have no business (nor the ability) to play from.

Time after time i saw golfers hitting from the Black T's because....."thats where the real men play from"....only to see their drives barely trickle past the forward T box...in many of these circumstances, a par 4 quickly turns into a part 8 or more (and very few people know about or observe the "double par rule"....once u get to double par...pick up the damn ball and more on to the next hole)

Many times i would approach these "real men" golfers and suggest that they minght enjoy their round more if they moved to a more forward T box that better fit their game....i dont ever recall that that suggesting was well received with the "best" response I got being "i paid my fee....now i want to hit as many shorts as i can for my money" (true story),

So here's one more way to speed up play on all the courses....hit from the T box that your game can handle...trust me...u will enjoy the game more and keep the course moving on time.

It would appear some things that are considered normal to maintain pace of play are considered rushing by others. Dropping off your cart partner at his/her ball and driving to your ball then picking them up after both have hit to some is normal, to others is rushing. Lining up your putt while someone else is putting is considered rushing by some, normal by others. Parking the cart to facilitate leaving the hole when finished and marking scores at the next tee are also normal to some, unnecessary to others.

And I agree with the post above that this is not confined to the championship courses. I played Yankee Clipper in a foursome behind a group of four men who appeared to be competent players. After four holes, they were two holes behind. Ridiculous. They even retried chips and putts while we were waiting on the tee. The ambassador told us he asked them to pick up the pace, but they were two holes behind the rest of the round.

But I still believe golf here is a cooperative effort of all players on the course to maximize enjoyment for all.

Pace of play
 

Since no one has answered your question. You can call a course and make arrangements to tee off before the start of the tee time of morning wave. I think you can only play 9 holes doing that. Unfortunately this time of year, the sunrise is at about 7:20 AM...doesn't give the courses much time to schedule early birds. However in the summer it is easy to do. This also helps to explain why Russ-Boston indicated he almost never sees cigarette butts on the course, he is the first group out.

[QUOTE=mikeod;298783]It is not a "rule" of golf, but is accepted etiquette. Your position on the course is behind the group in front of you rather than in front of the group behind you. If the ambassador tells you your group is 5 minutes ahead of pace, do you sit in the cart for 5 minutes? The stated pace of play is not a minimum, but should be a maximum.

Play on any golf course is a cooperative effort of all players to maximize enjoyment of all. Groups that fall well behind reduce the enjoyment of all who play immediately behind them and for the rest of the day. Groups who push others, hit into them in their haste, also adversely affect the golf experience of others. Nobody is asking anyone to rush their game, just play at a pace that keeps the groups in contact with each other and minimizes delays."Quote=mikeod

I agree with you. That is how I was taught. If there is an open hole ahead of you, speed up. Etiquette is simply consideration for others.

[quote=graciegirl;298985]The only way that this is proper etiquette is if the group ahead is playing at a normal pace and you are playing too slow. If the group ahead is faster than the norm, there is absolutely no reason for your group to rush ahead if it is already playing at the suggested pace. Filling that gap changes nothing. If the starter is getting everybody off at their appointed tee times, it does not matter if somebody finishes ahead of schedule. It only matters if slower than prescribed play causes a backup.

What adds to the groups backing up is when the starter sends a group off before their scheduled starting time. This has happened to me on several occassions. Sooner or later you are going to come to a standstill.

Sorry, I was working all day (still am - don't tell my nurse supervisor!).

9 holes only. I do prefer to get out early if possible. I've played 9 holes and been finished well before 9AM. they can usually shove out 3-4 foursomes before the wave - depending on daylight.

[quote=Indydealmaker;299000]I was sure that I was right, because Sweetie always says, "we need to keep up", but when I asked him just now about this situation, he agrees with you. So you are right and I am wrong. I apologize.

[quote=graciegirl;299012]No apology is needed. Open discourse is what this forum is all about. We all learn from each other. I have always been wrong before I was right. . . for the last 60 years at least.

Pace of play...update
 

I played Hacienda this morning (8:13 tee time). We played 18 in 3 hours and 45 minutes!!!! Definitely worth noting.since I started the slow pace of play thread a week ago. Nancy

I use to play golf 3 or 4 times a week before I moved to The Villages. Our groups played on a difficult Pete Dye course and we usually played in 3:45 minutes. I've basically given up playing golf in TV, way too slow. It is no fun to wait on every hole. Too many golfers don't play "ready golf". You don't have to rush to play a round in under 4 hours.

So if I understand things correctly; top flight players can play TV country club courses in 3:45. Slow players are the ones playing 4:15 which is generally the prescribed "acceptable" playing time per the score cards. This means that these "acceptable" but "slow" players are causing the top flight players to wait an average of 1.6 minutes per hole. Wow!

:sigh: So, because the time increment is only 1.6 minutes per hole, it's OK to make everyone behind you wait for you to complete your round at the "prescribed" pace. They are rushing, you are not. So if there are two, three, four holes open in front of you, it's the "pros" in front of you creating the gap, not you. I would suggest you attend the Good Golf School at Colony and ask how they feel about that. Call 750-4558. It's held Thursday mornings, 9-11.

We played today, by chance there was a group behind us that we know. I have played with them and they are not slow players. Also by chance, we had an exceptional round, birdies and pars and fast play. They were two holes behind us when we finished, but ahead of the "prescribed" pace. If I read you right they should pick up the pace just because we were playing faster than normal? (By coincidence there was no one in front of us but usually if we are playing and the group all gets pars or birdies I expect to wait at the next tee.)

Simple answer, Yes. They should try to close the gap, but not by rushing. Playing ready golf, being prepared to play when it's their turn, etc. If they are still two holes behind at the end and they have tried to close the gap and the groups behind them are not backed up, I don't have a problem.

Look, we can all point to exceptional instances where a gap will occur, but they are not frequent. All I am promoting is that people on the golf courses understand that their pace of play affects all those behind them and they consider their fellow golfers when they play.

Being at your ball when it's your turn to hit, or dropping your partner at his/her ball (as long as you're not getting in front of another golfer) are integral to ready golf. Same with parking to facilitate leaving the hole. Failing to do these things is failing to play ready golf.

For anyone who considers these actions rushing... well, let's just say, I know what part of "ready golf" they don't understand. :(

First of all, congratulations on your exceptional round and fast play. But, in my experience, the times when you have a great round and are able to play faster as a result, are few and far between. You were lucky, and apparently there was no one in front of you holding you up. Nine times out of ten, there is a group in front of you that will be holding you up, or that you will just keep pace with. And there is probably someone in front of them going at a certain pace. I played here all summer, and I can think of only a couple of times when we did not have to wait, and played right along, finishing in under 4 hours. And that was in the summer when things are slow. With birds coming back, and golf courses more packed, it isn't going to get any better. We're not what I call great golfers, we have handicaps in the low teens, but we play along, not talking when its our turn to hit, always ready, etc., don't spend a lot of time looking for balls. We all need to be considerate of the people behind us. If you keep looking back and seeing people waiting on your group all the time, then you're holding people up! If you have no where to go that's one thing, but if you have an opening in front of you, speed it up!

[QUOTE=tghoul;299925Too many golfers don't play "ready golf". You don't have to rush to play a round in under 4 hours.[/QUOTE]

Now under 4 hours is expected.Come on people!! You don't have to rush to play a round under 4 hours?What happens if you hit a stray shot? Are you allowed to look for it?What happens if you need to use the restroom? Wait until the round is over?No practice swings?Geez..no talking to anybody on the course..it might slow you down.Golf is supposed to be fun ...not a drill .

I guess I have accepted that sometimes you have to wait for the group in front of you. As long as the round takes around the "pace of play" time I think that is okay.

We could be somewhere where the only course around is shutting down due to lack of play. Instead we are lucky to live where not only are there many courses to play but new ones are still being planned and constructed.

If you really need to play FAST or SLOW you could always join an exclusive country club where very few rounds are played. Then you could work with the starter to make sure you play when there is no one in front of you (if you are that fast player) or no one behind you (if you want to take your time). Of course the downside to that is the membership fee - could easily be $50,000 at some places; the annual fees; the minimum you have to spend at the restaurant every month; tipping the bag boy; tipping the guy who wipes down your clubs; etc.

I think I'll stay here.

No one said a 4 hour round is expected. We do say we faster players do enjoy it when it (rarely) happens. No one said, no practice swings. But I have played with people who instead of taking one or 2 swings, take about 10. No one said, no talking on the course. But you shouldn't be talking and holding up the golf course telling your buddies a joke when it is your turn to hit. All we're asking for is common courtesy - they call it golf etiquette.

I absolutely agree with your post Taj. I am sure that I do not play as well as you do, but I have been playing for 40 years and I dislike the shenanigans. I played with a foursome for years that were all men (including Sweetie) but me, and I didn't hit as well as they did, but they didn't mess with a lot of practice swings, they were ready for the next shot, watched where an errant shot would go for the group, didn't take forever looking for a ball in the water or the bullrushes, it was enjoyable and not at all hurried. They were all much better golfers than me and I loved watching their strong hits and precise placement, but I kept their pace. I really do not enjoy slow golf. I lose my concentration. You don't have to rush shots or putt with the pin in to do this.

I've been reading all of this with interest. I'm a gonnabe, I play golf, but not enough yet to really improve my game, and Mrs mulligan is going to give it a try when we move down. She said she would be concerned about getting out in front of some faster players, and holding things up. All that being said, what's wrong with letting a group behind you play through? When I have been in that situation up here in the great white north, that seems to take all the pressure off.

Mulligan.

Not to worry. These conversations pretty much deal with play on the 18 hole courses and not the executive courses. Although it is wise to learn not only how to hit the ball, but the ins and outs of what people call etiquette, the executive courses are very friendly to beginners with your choice of tee placement. For rank beginners, after 10 shots, pick up until you are a little better and don't worry too much if you lose a ball. We have all been beginners and believe me, I hit the ball like one now.

Check out my earlier post on how my wife managed when she took up the game, she was nervous/concerned about pace at first, but had no issue.

Please do not read my post as mean spirited, with my finger pointing at you lecturing about being slow, I am not trying to be. I am just sharing my experience as a long time golfer.

As far as playing through, IMO it should never be used on a "full" golf course. By full course , I mean a course where almost every tee time is taken (likely in TV from now until May). On a full course, your group has an obligation to all groups behind you to stay in position. By stay in position, I mean you are ahead of the time for the course or you are keeping up with the group in front of you. If your group falls out of position, IMO you MUST do whatever it takes to get back into position, you should not let the group behind you play through.

If your group cannot stay in position then there is likely more than just one group that is being held up. Allowing a group to play through will make things worse.

On the other hand there are times when allowing someone to play through makes sense and is a nice gesture. An example would be the course is not crowded, there is no one in front of you and a twosome is behind your group of four. It is a judgment call you will quickly learn with experience.

FWIW. I have played on courses where if a group falls out of position, they are asked to please speed up, if they do not, they are asked to take there ball to a place that is "back in position".

Please excuse me as I type very slowly. So I don't think I will give my opinion as someone would be done reading it before I can finish typing it.

Enjoy your day even if it isn't going as fast as you would like.

The standard rule is to pick up after double par - not 10 shots. In fact when my wife first started playing, she would pick up after 3 shots and putt the remaining shots. Now she is holing out in 3-5 normally.

You are right of course. It has been a long time and I forgot.

We played at Orange Blossom yesterday, in 4 hours 2 minutes. The expected pace of play listed on the OB score Card is 4 hours 7 minutes. It was a nice comfortable round. The guys in front of us struggled with lost balls, etc., but managed to keep pace. They didn't look like they were hurrying. I asked the Ambassador about whether or not they can do any real "rangering" on The Villages golf courses. He said "yes, they can tell people they have open holes in front of them; they can tell people they are off pace; and he said they can ask people to skip a par three if they are more than 15 minutes behind". He also said that most ambassadors are hesitant to say or do those things. Maybe it varies from course to course. It would be interesting to see if some courses are continually slower, or don't enforce the pace of play, than others.

Where did the yardage markers go?
 

Finally back in the saddle in TV. Played our first round of 10-11 winter at GlennView. FWIW, Front nine: 2:03 (good), back nine: 2:15 (9 minutes to the bad). I could not tell why the backup existed as the groups I could see in front of me all were in position. I did what I could for pace of play as I was in my pocket 3 times :cus:, I remember a time when I really could play this game :ohdear: and hope it returns!

One thing I did notice which will not help pace of play is that the yardage markers at 25 yard increments from 75 - 250 have been removed. I suspect there were breaking? I wonder if at all courses or just GV? It is too bad they could not have found a way to leave them, as it really helped with selecting a club. Possibly the developer has negotiated a great margin on the sale of every GPS yardage device :duck:

I read a report that said a significant percentage of backups are created as the result of scheduling tee times too closely together, particularly if there is a par 3 within the first 5 holes.

I have seen this where I play out of in MA. The course does not have tee times. On a Sunday you arrive, check in and get on a list. The third hole is a Par 3. In past years folks would tee off of the first hole as soon as the group in front got out of range. There was always a wait on the third hole, often two groups on the tee.

This summer they changed how you tee off of number one. You did not tee off until the flag was taken out of the hole by the group in front of you on the first green.

I am not sure how this affected the overall time, but it did solve the long wait on the third hole.

You got it right

T times too close together.....not likely....the T times are pre-scheduled (usually 9-10 minutes apart) by the T time system......the individual course cannot change those times.

Some back-ups can be caused by an inattentive starter.....if the starter does not send the next group out at the right time (i.e. sends it out early) that can create a back up on the course. Likewise, golfers must be on time as well....i have seen many times a golf group, after the starter has told them its ok to T off....just stand around on the T, BSing and as a result they T off late....that then backs up everything in back of them

Slow play is an ongoing/niver ending problem....especially this time of year....and as much as people dislike it.....i think its here to stay.

Shhhsh! Sounds like work instead of fun to me! Thought my hubby and I might take up the sport when we get moved down but now I think I'll just find something else to do! Don't like to be "rushed" in my old age!

I hope you reconsider. Golf is fun. Remember this thread concerns play on the championship courses. While some of the comments may also apply to the executive courses, those courses are designed to have varying degrees of difficulty, so a beginner can play a course with fewer hazards and/or length so they can enjoy the experience. As their capabilities improve, they can try harder and harder courses while still enjoying the game. Please attend the Good Golf School put on by TV. It will give you a lot of information about golf here and many tips on how to maximize your enjoyment without worrying about your effect on the pace of play.

Pace of Play
 

On page 25 of the new phone book about golf, pace of play is addressed. It states, "The Pace of Play 'Time Par' for the Championship Courses ranges from 4:05 at Orange Blossom Hills to 4:26 at Palmer Legends Country Club".

These parameters are designed by professionals, so why is 4:02 unreasonable or "slow"?

Golf should not be a race to see how fast you can get around a course, but enjoyable and relaxing. I have played with players who would state at the end of a round, "Our group played in 3:40 today". So? Even though they were all good golfers, maybe they could have been even better if they would concentrate on their games more than how fast they could play 18. (Just a thought.)

Yes, truly slow play is maddening (taking a bazillion practice swings, lining up putts forever, etc.). Constant pushing from the group behind you is just as maddening when you or they have no place to go. Let the ambassadors do their jobs and leave everyone else alone.