Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1423461)

The Stimpmeter was actually invented by Edward Stimpson in Newton, MA.

Oakmont's greens are among the fastest in the world and I doubt that they are between 10 and 12. They are probably closer to 13 on a regular basis. I do know that back in 1953 it was the only time in history that the USGA slowed down the greens for the US Open.

To expect greens anywhere to play that fast is more than a bit unrealistic.

The greens on the PGA Tour week in and week out average about 11 and I doubt that most players in The Villages would be able to play on greens that fast. Of course, the amount of slope in the greens has a lot to do with how they play as well. The greens at Oakmont as well as the greens at Augusta National have a lot of undulations and are usually somewhere around 13 feet. What that Rickie Fowler video doesn't show is how much downhill that putt is.

I played a course up in Massachusetts called the Myopia Hunt Club that had the most undulating greens I think I've ever played. They slowed them down to 11 a few years back because they were deemed to be unfair. I remember being able to drop a ball from shoulder height on some of their greens only to have it roll 50 feet off the green. I once chipped at ball two feet short of the hole at the eighth hole there only to have to come back to my feet. In one US Open held there, a player putted his ball into a water hazard next to the fourth green.

I also played Winged Foot when their greens were at US Open speed and they were almost impossible. That resulted in the highest winning US Open score in the modern era.

Good private club greens usually run around 9-10 and most golfers would find that pretty fast. Average speed at a lot of public facilities tends to be around 8-9 and that is considered medium speed. I would guess that the championship courses that I've played, with the exception of Lopez last October, are running at about 8-9. That's not a bad speed for most golfers.

I played Chula Vista this morning and I've played fairways that are faster than those greens. In fact, the only thing slower than the greens was the two groups in front of us.

I'm not happy about greens that are that slow, but I can't tolerate taking two hours to play nine holes on an easy executive. There are some people that just don't belong on a golf course.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1423487)

You should have seen Egret yesterday. The tees putted faster than the greens, the fairways putted faster than the greens, the rough putted faster than the greens, the sand traps putted faster than the greens, and a ball 2 feet underwater putted faster than the greens. I suspect a cauldron of molten steel would putt faster than the greens.

!

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1423488)

Trying to read between the lines.................are you saying they're not running 9 to 11 on the Stimp??

Please clarify.

:jester:

Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 1423482)

Gotta agree. Golf has fought the elitist image enough.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1423487)

You should have seen Egret yesterday. The tees putted faster than the greens, the fairways putted faster than the greens, the rough putted faster than the greens, the sand traps putted faster than the greens, and a ball 2 feet underwater putted faster than the greens. I suspect a cauldron of molten steel would putt faster than the greens:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Originally Posted by John_W (Post 1423604)

Thanks for the heads up, I was going to put in for Egret on Friday since they showed aerification was last done on May 19th. The past two weeks I played Cane Garden (Jacaranda to Allamada) and Havana (Hemingway only) and the greens were pretty good at both courses.

I see posters always making reference to a money issue for TV golf courses. These courses receive paying customers 12 months of the year and for six of those months they get top dollar. I came from Maryland and we usually never played past early November and started back early April, that's about 8 months of income for those courses. They also don't get top dollar green fees except on the weekends. That 8 days a month out of 30 days, the November to April higher green fees is a lot longer and the six month summer fees should be like gravy. Just saying.

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1423480)

WOW.

If they pay, they belong.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1423584)

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Care to play for a little $$$$
Black tees, no strokes

:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1423631)

So as long as they pay, they have a right to take huge divots and not replace or fill them? They can take swings on the greens with their wedges, they can drive carts in the bunkers and onto the greens? Can they go into bunkers and not rake them?Can they hold up everyone else on the golf course?

When I say they don't belong on the golf course I mean that until they understand the rules and etiquette and have at least a minimum degree of proficiency they shouldn't be allowed on a golf course.

When I see some of the violations of etiquette on these courses and people not taking care of the course I do a slow burn. When I see people out there that whiff three times before they make contact and then roll the ball thirty yards along the ground I wonder how they are getting any enjoyment out of being there. When I see a husband trying to teach his wife to play when he can barely play himself and they are holding up everyone behind them, I say they don't belong on a golf course.

If it were up to me it would be mandatory that everyone attends the Good Golf School before being allowed to play. Then I would have the ambassadors monitoring the players so that they follow the etiquette of the game and keep their place on the golf course.

Yes, anyone that pays evidently has a right to be on the course, but they don't have the right to ruin the course and ruin the day of the people behind them.

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan (Post 1423675)

Don't mind it one bit.

I'm just really tired of hearing everyone use the excuse of bad fairways, bad greens or bad whatever on the championship courses to shooting high scores or making too many putts. When is enough, enough in bad mouthing the courses, bad mouthing the maintenance companies and bad mouthing the greens superintendent?

The people that abuse the R/A tags and park next to the greens and drive between the bunkers and the greens, the people that fail to fix ball marks and fill their divots, the people that pull up to the tees and pull off the cartpaths to gain that 1 1/2 foot advantage, the people that ignore cart path only conditions and drive out on the fairways, the people that cut the ropes on areas marked off - that's what the complaints should be directed towards.

If you don't like the courses or conditions, move to your place of nirvana. If you don't like the courses or conditions, play somewhere else, ALL THE TIME, outside the bubble. If you don't like the courses or conditions because it hurts your game, get better.

Good lord, enough is freaking enough.

Originally Posted by CatskillBill (Post 1423832)

Originally Posted by CatskillBill (Post 1423832)

We have the right to comment on course conditions both good and bad. That's the point of a forum. We can get a heads up on the good, the bad, and the ugly. Go play Seminole on Belle Glade and tell me how great the greens are. There's no excuse for those kinds of conditions on a champion course. It has nothing to do with players abusing the course.

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan (Post 1423954)

Complain all you want; some of you really seem to be in your element by constantly doing so. BTW, have any of you constant complainers and know it all agronomist applied to GMS for a greens superintendent position or even voiced your complaints directly to GMS? Didn't think so.

Seminole must not be too bad; went by there tonight and the course had players everywhere. I suppose those players don't have to play Pebble Beach conditions or Augusta conditions to enjoy the game. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.