Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2053184)

…

When you convert a qualified account to a Roth IRA, you create taxable income in the conversion year. The income is taxable at your marginal rate. The taxable amount is the current value of the assets transferred, excluding any nondeductible contributions. The IRS has you value the conversion equal to the amount of taxable income you would create had you simply withdrawn the proceeds rather than converting them into a Roth IRA.

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2053387)

just checked the ROTH allowances for funding from salaries, and we aren't allowed to fund new, actually got into IRS violation and had to re-characterize the account. . as far as a conversion, that is best when not working and have a lower tax rate than when you are working with a high tax rate. . . So for us, the ROTH in any form would be too expensive. .

However, recently, the IRS and other investment houses have created 401K roth accounts, which you can fund after the 401K is full, with after tax dollars with the same tax free benefits. This seems like a no brainer, but the same total applies to > 50 at @25K. With a 401K Roth, the income grows tax free, assets always grow tax free until sold. But a Roth 401K has an RMD, even though its tax free. .

so, the key is in a high tax bracket, put as much away in qualified plans, 401K, especially with matching. When transitioned to a lower tax bracket, then conversions make sense, or even using IRA money to defer Social security and putting what you can into the ROTH, while your $30,000 SS income is growing at 3-4 % per year. . the often quoted 8% includes continuing to work. . . screw that!

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2053387)

just checked the ROTH allowances for funding from salaries, and we aren't allowed to fund new, actually got into IRS violation and had to re-characterize the account. . as far as a conversion, that is best when not working and have a lower tax rate than when you are working with a high tax rate. . . So for us, the ROTH in any form would be too expensive. .

However, recently, the IRS and other investment houses have created 401K roth accounts, which you can fund after the 401K is full, with after tax dollars with the same tax free benefits. This seems like a no brainer, but the same total applies to > 50 at @25K. With a 401K Roth, the income grows tax free, assets always grow tax free until sold. But a Roth 401K has an RMD, even though its tax free. .

so, the key is in a high tax bracket, put as much away in qualified plans, 401K, especially with matching. When transitioned to a lower tax bracket, then conversions make sense, or even using IRA money to defer Social security and putting what you can into the ROTH, while your $30,000 SS income is growing at 3-4 % per year. . the often quoted 8% includes continuing to work. . . screw that!

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2053399)

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2053403)

Regarding:

Cons
You pay tax on the conversion when you do it—and it could be substantial.

You may not benefit if your tax rate is lower in the future.

You must wait five years to take tax-free withdrawals, even if you’re already age 59½.

Figuring taxes can be complicated if you have other traditional, SEP. or SIMPLE IRAs you're not converting.


Just another view........................not seeing a GREAT advantage of converting to a ROTH.

Originally Posted by M2inOR (Post 2053407)

Yes, math and full understanding is required.

If this is all Greek, best to talk to a professional.

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2053411)

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Obviously you don't know my background.

:ho:

Originally Posted by M2inOR (Post 2053419)

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 2053111)

Many years ago I had a CPA I loved. He loved me, too. (Not real love, not hubba-hubba love, just the kind of love between a CPA and a multi-faceted woman who loved to pick his brain and always showed up prepared. But he retired. (sigh) I then found another CPA and I liked him a lot, but he retired on me, too. (Hmmmm, should I be taking these CPA retirements personally?)

And so, now, I have a wet-behind-the-ears CPA who is also a lawyer in the office of our regular lawyer. He’s fine, but I have to teach him a little something once in a while — like how the way I do our QCDs is OK because of where the IRAs are on deposit.

(Of course, I took him well-sourced documentation on the subject to make sure he knew that this retired high school English teacher knew what she was talking about. . .And about that English teacher thing, yes, I know in my posts I bastardize the hellouta punctuation, but I know I am doing that and it’s OK. And I will never correct anybody else, unless it is to share a laugh about a funny typo. We all have them. Although, I do wish some people would double-space longer posts into paragraphs to make them more readable — to make them look less like a manifesto — but I digress.)

Anyway, the new young CPA is coming along nicely and I don’t think he will retire any time soon.

Long story longer — CPA #1 used to tease me a little about doing those Roth conversions before RMD age. He always said, “Why do you want to pay your kids’ taxes?” I would explain that it was not about anybody else’s taxes, and that I had projected taxable income, found some room to take a little more hit, and took the opportunity. (It just seemed like a good idea at the time. And I was right. But as I said earlier, I regret not doing more of those conversions while I could.)

I still project taxable income and buffer our RMDs with QCDs, especially if I think the next year is not going to bring any need for extra income. And when I reach a point where there could be a reason to keep more of the RMDs for ourselves, I will do that. But, for now, I stay well-aware of thresholds and IRMAA.

But to answer your question, “Why now?” — it’s because sometime I might want a little extra ice cream on my cake.

Boomer

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 2053176)

I understand everything we own. A professional might have been able to show a bigger return, but we’re OK with our own decisions and our returns.

My wiring is such that I like taking the responsibility for investment decisions. In fact, I really do think we are all wired in whatever way when it comes to money. I don’t know exactly why I am wired with an interest in investing, etc., but I am glad I am, and Mr. Boomer is happy about it, too.

Giving somebody one percent, annually, taken quarterly, whether the accounts are up or down is not something we are ready to do.

I have been at this for decades — in a sort of comfort zone. Maybe boring, but a comfort zone.

I do have a philosophy of investing. It is simple and categorized and forward-looking — and backward-looking — because I think many investors often suffer from amnesia. And I pay attention. No spreadsheets or formulas involved, just making sure I completely understand what we own — and what those companies do — and how they are doing at doing it, along with general awareness of things I might need to be aware of — like taxes — and have been getting tax advice along the way. I understand cap gains very well and play them carefully.

Mr. Boomer and I have a backup plan if I get to the point where I start investing in Franklin Mint plates or Pez dispensers or Beanie Babies. We have interviewed a few planners and know who we will see if we feel like we need or want to.

The main aggravation I have now is that there is no return on cash in that moat I maintain around the stocks. Our parents could always get returns on CDs. I don’t think we will ever see returns on CDs again. But, even so, I know to never get us into the position of having to sell stocks to pay taxes — thus, the moat will continue to be around.

All advisors can claim big returns right now. Bigger than mine, no doubt. But the old bull has been running for a long time. He must be getting awfully tired — and there sure seem to be a lot of picadors around these days. Whatever happens, I will stay swaddled in our comfort zone with my unsophisticated approach, still making our own decisions, while we can.

Btw, I am now over the idea of looking further into Roth conversions at RMD age. The existing Roth will be there already — and all ready — if we want it for a tax-advantaged expenditure. But I still regret not doing more conversion before RMD age. But that’s just me and my whole picture wiring.

Thanks for the conversation.

Boomer