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-   -   How much is your financial advisor costing you? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/investment-talk-158/how-much-your-financial-advisor-costing-you-359692/)

DaddyD 07-01-2025 10:49 AM

Being single & childless & "quantity sufficient" in terms of net worth, I share OP's concerns about who will take care of my investments, bill paying, and (most importantly!) who will be my health care advocate if / when I become physically &/or mentally incapacitated. I think about and have researched these issues a lot, & my overall takeaway is that there are no easy or perfect solutions.

In terms of paying a person or company to manage your investment portfolio for a 1% fee, maybe back in the 1980's & 90's that was a good solution, but that's no longer true. We all know that statistically speaking, investing in low cost diversified index funds or ETF's thru Fidelity/Vanguard/Schwab will beat actively managed portfolios with high fees.

OP states that he has enough money in cash & treasuries to pay his living expenses for the rest of his life, and that he's happy with his current investment mix, so again I'm confused as to why he thinks it's necessary to hire someone to help manage his portfolio. Presumably he doesn't actually need help NOW, but is rather trying to plan for the future. Vanguard has a low-cost investment advisory services called Vanguard Personal Advisor Services (PAS) so I'd def recommend contacting them before contacting any locally owned "wealth management" companies.

If OP is concerned about succumbing to investment scams as he gets older, a SPIA (Single Premium Individual Annuity) might be a good solution. I would NOT suggest buying any other type annuity, and I'd be VERY wary of even discussing annuities with local wealth management company.

While OP has received lots of good suggestions on this forum, imo the best place to ask finance / investment related questions is here:

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

Lastly, below are some low cost investment advisory companies often recommended by bogleheads:

Home - PlanVision

Financial Ducks In A Row • Independent financial advice: IRA, Social Security, income tax, and all things financial

https://www.evansonasset.com

Excellent Financial Advice for Everyone - Blankenship Financial Planning

Janie123 07-01-2025 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2442293)
To me, paying an advisor a percentage of your total assets annually has never made any sense. I would never do that.

Same here… I have a handful of mutual funds that average over 10-12% a year over the life of the funds, and no funds are younger than 20 years.

J1ceasar 07-01-2025 11:38 AM

Why pay anything
 
as several people have already said, if you have that much money I won't worry about another five or $10,000 coming out if you're going to earn $40,000 a year minimum on a million.

However I don't know why you need someone to manage your money. As you get older you're supposed to simplify your life and personally if I were you I'd end up with half a dozen ETFs and a few bond funds and not worry about anything anymore. ETFs are extremely inexpensive much less than mutual funds and they trade It whatever the market is at that minute.

Hope I've saved you 10 to $20,000. As most people will say if you've earned the money I think you're pretty smart enough to do it on your own and it really does not take that much time.

J1ceasar 07-01-2025 11:42 AM

More info
 
Another suggestion is to talk to your local bank and see what they suggest as far as managing your assets and your end of life stage. If you don't have children to help out you should definitely contact a few lawyers and see what they would charge you if you get in capacitated

I actually have a relative who is a billionaire and he has a full-time lawyer and at least six people that live with him in his house 24 hours a day
Pretty sure you're not in that range but I think you get the idea that you have to have backup plans now rather than later

retiredguy123 07-01-2025 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J1ceasar (Post 2442580)
Another suggestion is to talk to your local bank and see what they suggest as far as managing your assets and your end of life stage. If you don't have children to help out you should definitely contact a few lawyers and see what they would charge you if you get in capacitated

I actually have a relative who is a billionaire and he has a full-time lawyer and at least six people that live with him in his house 24 hours a day
Pretty sure you're not in that range but I think you get the idea that you have to have backup plans now rather than later

I would never allow a bank to manage my assets, or to do any estate work.

retiredguy123 07-01-2025 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J1ceasar (Post 2442578)
as several people have already said, if you have that much money I won't worry about another five or $10,000 coming out if you're going to earn $40,000 a year minimum on a million.

However I don't know why you need someone to manage your money. As you get older you're supposed to simplify your life and personally if I were you I'd end up with half a dozen ETFs and a few bond funds and not worry about anything anymore. ETFs are extremely inexpensive much less than mutual funds and they trade It whatever the market is at that minute.

Hope I've saved you 10 to $20,000. As most people will say if you've earned the money I think you're pretty smart enough to do it on your own and it really does not take that much time.

If your assets are with Vanguard, their index mutual funds have a very low cost and they are comparable to their ETFs.

manaboutown 07-01-2025 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson (Post 2442556)
About 55 years ago took a little over 100 grand out of Dean Witter because of their expense charges, put it in Vanguard Mutual funds, where now some of their Admiral expense charge are under .2 %. Never used an adviser, been living on around 70K withdrawals for the last 10 years and still have a little over 3 mill. Vanguard is the best.

You may mean 50 years ago as Vanguard did not exist until 1975. The Vanguard Group - Wikipedia

Aces4 07-01-2025 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2442604)
I would never allow a bank to manage my assets, or to do any estate work.

..nor any investment manager, money manager, attorney or best friend.:boxing2:

petsetc 07-01-2025 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy Rodriguez (Post 2442565)
Is the Vanguard breakdown still working for you in 2025, given market conditions & uncertainty this year?

It is, I might not be getting the big ups of the market but I'm also not getting the big downs either. I have used a variation of Paul Merriman's recommendation since 2005 and recently try (not very well) to limit my draw to 5%, some years were MUCH more. And finally, we're ahead of where we started in 2005.
YMMV

Bwanajim 07-01-2025 02:37 PM

A friend of mine for 10 years handles my investments with Morgan Stanley. He gets1%.
All I know is I spend 60 or 70 K a year and my investment only drops 3 or $4000. I'm happy.

JRcorvette 07-01-2025 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaboutown (Post 2442204)
In recent weeks I have been in the process of contacting and interviewing potential financial advisors as I am hoping to reduce the amount of time and energy I use to manage my financial affairs as I continue to age. I also want one on hand to take over if I become incapacitated or when I pass on.

In general most FAs want a fee based on assets under management (AUM). On average it starts at about 1% on the first $1M and steps down to maybe 0.5% over the next several million if one has a larger securities portfolio. Some will agree to bill by the hour or otherwise but their fees are still substantial.

As their fees cannot be expensed and are not in any way tax deductible I started playing around with numbers to see how much I would need to earn to pay for their guidance, i.e., their true cost.

The following formula provides a good approximation.

Gross Income = Net Income / (1 - Marginal Tax Rate).

So I plugged in my personal numbers, a 35% marginal US tax bracket plus NIIT which is 3.8% imposed on top of both income and capital gain taxes. I rounded my top bracket out at 39%.

Using this formula I was astounded as a 1% AUM on $1M would run $10,000 but I would have to earn about $16,400+ to pay it!

Say I gross 5% in interest, ordinary dividends and realized short term capital gains (qualified dividends and long term capital gains enjoy lower tax rates). I need $16,400 of income to pay out of pocket the FA's 1% fee and $19,500 to pay the 39% tax on the $50,000 as it is all in my top bracket, so I am out of pocket $35,900 and get to keep and spend a whopping $14,100. That is a mere 1.4% cash return on my $1M. The FA receives more than I do after costs, almost as much as Uncle Sam!

Of course the portfolio could rise in value, decrease in value and provide little cash income return. In any event I am still out $16,400 which must come out of my other income.

Not considered: long term capital gain and qualified dividend tax rates.

Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT):
The NIIT is an additional 3.8% tax on certain investment income, including long-term capital gains, for individuals, estates, and trusts with modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) exceeding specific thresholds. This tax was enacted as part of the Affordable Care Act to help fund healthcare reforms.

For the 2025 tax year, the standard long-term capital gains tax rates are 0%, 15%, or 20%, depending on your taxable income and filing status.

Qualified Dividends and the NIIT: If your modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) exceeds the applicable NIIT threshold, your qualified dividends will be included in your net investment income for the purpose of calculating this additional tax. The NIIT is in addition to any other income tax already due on the qualified dividends.

"Dividends are taxed differently based on whether they're classified as qualified or ordinary.

Qualified dividends, which come from domestic or qualified foreign corporations and are subject to specific holding-period requirements, are taxed at the lower long-term capital gains rate. This rate is generally more favorable than the ordinary income tax rate and can range from 0% to 20%, depending on your income bracket.

Ordinary dividends are taxed at the higher ordinary income tax rate, which is the same rate applied to your regular salary or wages. This can be significantly higher, especially for those in higher income tax brackets. Understanding these tax implications is crucial for optimizing your investment strategy and minimizing your tax liability."

From: How are dividends taxed? | Vanguard


1/2% no matter how much or how little you invest with Parady~

jedalton 07-01-2025 04:54 PM

just invest in VTI yourself thru Fidelity and forget about it.

Michread 07-01-2025 07:48 PM

I suggest you sign on to bogleheads.org

You will get expert advice on the discussion forum.

kingofbeer 07-02-2025 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J1ceasar (Post 2442580)
Another suggestion is to talk to your local bank and see what they suggest as far as managing your assets and your end of life stage. If you don't have children to help out you should definitely contact a few lawyers and see what they would charge you if you get in capacitated

I actually have a relative who is a billionaire and he has a full-time lawyer and at least six people that live with him in his house 24 hours a day
Pretty sure you're not in that range but I think you get the idea that you have to have backup plans now rather than later

Local bank. No way. You need a fiduciary ... a trustee. Lawyer may be good. I have some ultra-wealthy friends who have a wealth manager who pays all of their bills. Country club charges, etc. It must be nice to be that rich.

Chi-Burbs-toTV2026 07-02-2025 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdeikenberry (Post 2442477)
Zero. I use Vanguard and manage my money myself. Financial advisors very rarely have your best known mind long term.

When I retire next year I plan to do the same, keep my 401k investments with Vanguard and manage it myself. Currently a mix of 60% stock / 40% bonds which I will tweak at some point. Going to take 4-5%


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