Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2442775)

My earlier point was that the money wasn’t spent, it was hoarded.

I’m good with who pays how much but if you want that to mean something you also need to tell me how much they made (income, not unrealized gains). If 65% of net income before taxes paid 75% of the taxes then great. If 50% of net income before taxes paid 65% of taxes then I have no complaint at all. But if 95% of net income before taxes paid 65% of taxes then quit the dang whining!

The statistics are based on facts but both the facts and the statistics are incomplete.

Then there are always the “three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2442775)

My earlier point was that the money wasn’t spent, it was hoarded.

I’m good with who pays how much but if you want that to mean something you also need to tell me how much they made (income, not unrealized gains). If 65% of net income before taxes paid 75% of the taxes then great. If 50% of net income before taxes paid 65% of taxes then I have no complaint at all. But if 95% of net income before taxes paid 65% of taxes then quit the dang whining!

The statistics are based on facts but both the facts and the statistics are incomplete.

Then there are always the “three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

Originally Posted by Pballer (Post 2442777)

The Big Beautiful Pile of Crap bill is just that, a pile of crap. The middle class will be paying thousands more in big beautiful tariffs and getting back a fraction of that from grandiose promises that sounded good at the time but have restrictive conditions that leave you feeling that you have been suckered. Take the no tax on overtime promise. It turns out that a maximum of only $12,500 in overtime will be exempt from tax. I guess that was somehow left out of the promise. I'm sure the billionaire class got most of what they wanted in this bill though.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2442781)

And my point is that profit is not "hoarded", it is re-invested in the ways I already posted.

And again, how much income they have is IRRELEVANT. What's relevant is how much does the government TAKE AWAY from what they earned to give away to those who didn't produce.

I can't be any more clear.

Originally Posted by Pballer (Post 2442777)

The Big Beautiful Pile of Crap bill is just that, a pile of crap. The middle class will be paying thousands more in big beautiful tariffs and getting back a fraction of that from grandiose promises that sounded good at the time but have restrictive conditions that leave you feeling that you have been suckered. Take the no tax on overtime promise. It turns out that a maximum of only $12,500 in overtime will be exempt from tax. I guess that was somehow left out of the promise. I'm sure the billionaire class got most of what they wanted in this bill though.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2442786)

But you don’t know how much the govt. has taken away from what they have earned because you don’t know what they have earned. To you, this is IRRELEVANT while to me it is very RELEVANT. I can’t be any more clear.

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2442779)

Unrealized gain is just that , until it is realized it is speculative . not hoarding,
I don't see how "I" am whining ?

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2442789)

“Hoarding” referred to income, not unrealized gains.

At some level unrealized gains are more than speculative, they become leverage, but that is a whole other topic.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2442786)

But you don’t know how much the govt. has taken away from what they have earned because you don’t know what they have earned. To you, this is IRRELEVANT while to me it is very RELEVANT. I can’t be any more clear.

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2442690)

Solution , don't be poor, market equites have produced over 8% over history, $200. a month investment over a working life of 35 years assuming a 6% compounded return you would have over 267 K

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2442788)

And why does one think that's what's relevant???? I've never asked my neighbors what they earned or how much they have. Why would anyone be so nosy???? Clear????

Unless someone thinks that the top 5% paying 65% of all taxes is somehow unfair to those paying less (or zero), it's none of their business.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2442790)

So when those top 5% pay their tax representing 65% of all tax, they are "hoarding"? Hard to "hoard" the 35% the government leaves them.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2442793)

We were doing that. And then, just over a year before spouse was going to retire from a mostly-obsolete skilled labor job he'd been doing for over 40 years, his company shut down the department. He was out of work, with zero income, and not old enough yet for social security. The mortgage company continued needing their payments. We put the house on the market, and it wasn't until a year later that it finally sold.

We had almost nothing left, at that point.

And, 35 years prior, neither of us was earning enough to put away $200/month. People with high-paying jobs are completely oblivious to what people with modest incomes have to go through in life.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2442793)

We were doing that. And then, just over a year before spouse was going to retire from a mostly-obsolete skilled labor job he'd been doing for over 40 years, his company shut down the department. He was out of work, with zero income, and not old enough yet for social security. The mortgage company continued needing their payments. We put the house on the market, and it wasn't until a year later that it finally sold.

We had almost nothing left, at that point.

And, 35 years prior, neither of us was earning enough to put away $200/month. People with high-paying jobs are completely oblivious to what people with modest incomes have to go through in life.


To wit: 35 years prior to spouse's forced retirement, we hadn't even met. 35 years to spouse's retirement, it was 1984 and I was still a student in college, working two part-time jobs and busking in the subways of Boston to pay rent while I attended school full time. A year later I was working two other part time jobs, searching for full time work, and started paying back my student loans.

There was ZERO to save during these early years. I swear so many people I meet are just SO out of touch with the reality of working class America it's disheartening.