Revocable Living Trust and Dementia.

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 09-05-2021, 10:23 AM
gpk111 gpk111 is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 96
Thanks: 5
Thanked 44 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRMACK55 View Post
You’re exactly correct ! Thank you for clearly stating such
Trust will not help with elder abuse, but ultimately, you should choose between a will or trust anyway.
  #17  
Old 09-05-2021, 10:42 AM
gpk111 gpk111 is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 96
Thanks: 5
Thanked 44 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRMACK55 View Post
Avoid retail investors like Schwab and Fidelity with lots of fees embedded in these estates.

An attorney who only does estate planning should be both an accountant tax attorney with a speciality in trusts. They also can give a price for preparing everything including DNR and other measures.
I see a comingling here. Consider these various functions:

Power of attorney - Usually individuals with minimal fees if you know them. Could also be attorneys for a steep fee. Authority stops immediately upon death.

Investment managers - Could be boutique or major institutions. Usually about 1% management fee plus cost of asset (nothing for stocks or ETF's, up to ~3 % for complex mutual funds)

Attorney - Writes wills or trust documents. In the case of wills, could act as executor or get hired by executor. Can execute very lucrative probate process. In the case of trusts, setup fees are steeper than wills, but much simpler execution upon death. They also draft related documents: POA, HIPAA, DNR, etc

Executor (for wills)/Successor trustee (for trusts) - someone entrusted to make sure your wishes are carried out. Executor acts after death only and could hore a lawyer or trust department if so spelled out in will or trust.

Trust departments - Can act as successor trustee. Could also be a co-trustee with a family member, but focus is on investmenet management. That's their main source of revenue.

Accountants - Files tax documents.

Tax attorney - Files tax documents, but presumably more tax compliant in case of complex issues. Tax attorney work is often related to the a trust attorney, since the trust documents can have a bearing on tax filings.

Last edited by gpk111; 09-05-2021 at 10:48 AM.
  #18  
Old 09-06-2021, 05:09 AM
Luggage Luggage is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 914
Thanks: 47
Thanked 607 Times in 335 Posts
Default

Most lawyers in Florida do not offer anything for free.
  #19  
Old 09-06-2021, 05:25 AM
Debra Freeman Debra Freeman is offline
Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 54
Thanks: 17
Thanked 73 Times in 26 Posts
Default

You can also appoint a pre need professional guardian and a health care surrogate that you have interviewed and trust. Professional guardians are overseen by the courts.
  #20  
Old 09-06-2021, 06:16 AM
Robnlaura Robnlaura is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 157
Thanks: 46
Thanked 128 Times in 70 Posts
Default

After many years of trying to get my 96 year old mother into considering assisted living and being opposed by a brother who convinced her that our desire to have her sell her home and use the proceeds for her care was us really trying to steal her money, he convinced her to sign a power of attorney in his favor.. she fell broke her hip ( as we warned would happen) he summarily moved into her house “to help her” after a week of that he moved her into his house in New Jersey from florida he now has full control over her and her estate. Be careful with these power of attorney documents
  #21  
Old 09-06-2021, 06:36 AM
B-flat B-flat is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 843
Thanks: 398
Thanked 684 Times in 233 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robnlaura View Post
After many years of trying to get my 96 year old mother into considering assisted living and being opposed by a brother who convinced her that our desire to have her sell her home and use the proceeds for her care was us really trying to steal her money, he convinced her to sign a power of attorney in his favor.. she fell broke her hip ( as we warned would happen) he summarily moved into her house “to help her” after a week of that he moved her into his house in New Jersey from florida he now has full control over her and her estate. Be careful with these power of attorney documents
Sorry to hear of your situation. Your brother sounds like a con-man.
__________________
E=Fb
The Musical Theory of Relativity
  #22  
Old 09-06-2021, 06:54 AM
Ghat724@gmail.com Ghat724@gmail.com is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 15
Thanks: 5
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default POA. (Power of Attorney)

Power of Attorney is not eagerly accepted by a lot of institutions.
Besides it expires when the person for which it was created dies. A Revocable Living Trust is best for a widow or widower. Contact attorney Amy Pittman.
I was the successor trustee for my mother who died at age 100. Finalizing and distributing Mom's estate according to her wishes could not have been easier!
  #23  
Old 09-06-2021, 08:32 AM
Orvil Orvil is offline
Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 40
Thanks: 0
Thanked 42 Times in 20 Posts
Default

National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys
National Academy of Elder Law

You need an Elder Law specialist. This is an attorney or law practice that specializes in Elder Law and estate issues.

I've used this group's search engine to find a good lawyer twice for family members needing assistance. I've used one myself.

Setting things up properly certainly helped my in-laws when their time came to be cared for and their passing. It kept siblings and grandchildren on the straight and narrow, too. Both were properly cared for and their estates were very easy to clear. I only wish my attorney parents hadn't been so pig headed and consulted an Elder Law expert. They thought that they already knew it all. What they didn't factor was dementia. It was a nightmare. They had a lower standard of care as a result even with caring children trying to do what was right for them.

To find someone in another state to deal with setting up these documents was made much easier by finding an attorney specializing in these issues. They will also have access to financial planners and accountants should those be needed.

I've recommended their website to a number of friends with success. An hour's consultation is well worth the cost. In the case of my late in-laws, I contacted the law firm. I spoke with the attorney and set up the appointment. I advised the Elder Law attorney that they were too cheap to pay for good legal advice. I arranged for her to charge them a nominal fee and send the remainder of the bill to me. She said that this was very common and she completely understood. They met with her. It was such a load off their minds.

What I've learned from all these experiences is every person's situation is unique. Size of assets is not the only issue. No one's situation is so unique that an Elder Care attorney can't sort it out for you in advance. It's very comforting to have a plan of action.
  #24  
Old 09-06-2021, 09:13 AM
Boomer Boomer is offline
Soaring Parsley
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,222
Thanks: 147
Thanked 2,204 Times in 740 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robnlaura View Post
After many years of trying to get my 96 year old mother into considering assisted living and being opposed by a brother who convinced her that our desire to have her sell her home and use the proceeds for her care was us really trying to steal her money, he convinced her to sign a power of attorney in his favor.. she fell broke her hip ( as we warned would happen) he summarily moved into her house “to help her” after a week of that he moved her into his house in New Jersey from florida he now has full control over her and her estate. Be careful with these power of attorney documents

Thank you for posting this. In late 2020, we redid our stuff, via emailed documents and 2 virtual meetings with our attorney, followed by an in-person meeting for the signing -- with masks and social distancing. (We used an attorney in our home state because we spend more time there than we used to and it has remained our place of primary residence.)

In some ways, 2020 was a good time to get things done. We could take our time and get all the questions really together and play through all the "what if scenarios." We are a small family --with no cons in the line-up -- but even so, it is important to try to cross all the t's and dot all the i's.

When I was carefully reading the power-of-attorney, it occurred to me that I had not realized before how incredibly powerful that document is. It is not something to take lightly.

I think, no matter how we are doing now, as we age, we all fear the "what if scenario" of being unable to handle our own business.

I am so sorry your mother was victimized -- and by her own son -- who was also more than willing to victimize the rest of the family, too. Unfortunately, such a thing is more common than we would like to think.

I have heard it said -- "You never really know somebody until you are to share an estate with them."

The boomers are aging in a time of more smaller families or no children at all or with beloved children spread around geographically -- and these things are now, more often, adding yet another layer of complication to elder-care decisions.

I hope our OP here will think seriously about calling the attorney -- well recommended in this thread -- and at least get an appointment to find out if she's a match.

Before going to such an appointment, it is really important to sit down and make a list of all the questions and scenarios that can be thought of -- and go in prepared and with the realization that such important decisions will probably take more than one appointment -- with more thinking time in-between. (This should not be boilerplate stuff.)

Boomer

Last edited by Boomer; 09-06-2021 at 09:38 AM.
  #25  
Old 09-19-2021, 06:55 AM
Ghat724@gmail.com Ghat724@gmail.com is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 15
Thanks: 5
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Whoever handles your estate must be trustworthy. A successor trustee to a revocable trust has a strict set of instructions that he or she must follow. As the successor trustee to my mother's trust it was easy to pay the bills and distribute the money without questions or demands from my siblings.
Don't name a trust company or bank trust department as the successor trustee. They move slowly and charge large fees. Use them or estate lawyers in an advisory capacity only, if needed. A revocable trust is only revocable by the maker. When the maker dies the instructions in the trust are set in stone. This is the way to go.
Creating the trust is not expensive. I recommend lawyer Any Pittman in Oxford.
  #26  
Old 09-19-2021, 09:09 AM
Michael G. Michael G. is offline
Soaring Eagle member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,047
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2,125 Times in 807 Posts
Default

Forget about all of the above and just adopt me. lol
  #27  
Old 09-19-2021, 09:56 AM
gpk111 gpk111 is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 96
Thanks: 5
Thanked 44 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghat724@gmail.com View Post
Whoever handles your estate must be trustworthy. A successor trustee to a revocable trust has a strict set of instructions that he or she must follow. As the successor trustee to my mother's trust it was easy to pay the bills and distribute the money without questions or demands from my siblings.
Don't name a trust company or bank trust department as the successor trustee. They move slowly and charge large fees. Use them or estate lawyers in an advisory capacity only, if needed. A revocable trust is only revocable by the maker. When the maker dies the instructions in the trust are set in stone. This is the way to go.
Creating the trust is not expensive. I recommend lawyer Any Pittman in Oxford.
Valuable thread here. Thanks for comments. I'm working on a Trust which may last for more than one generation and I have made these observations re trust administration, governance and compliance:

Most Trust Companies focus on “Assets under Management.” They charge ~1% annually and provide free administrative services as part of the package. In theory, admin services to large accounts are at the same level as small accounts. In practice, corporate trust services can be cumbersome to deal with and they will charge the estate for services such as accounting and to resolve serious legal questions. It might be better to focus the trust management on one or two individuals (with named successors), and have them hire a money manager, accountant, and attorneys as needed.

Any additional comments appreciated!
  #28  
Old 09-19-2021, 10:29 AM
dougjb dougjb is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 203
Thanks: 85
Thanked 359 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Gee, I think I shall start a thread that seeks advice on how to do self-administered open heart surgery.

To me, it is inane to seek legal advice from a bunch of people who might be named blarney or off the cuff or even dougjb. Are you aware of their credentials? What is their experience? Are they basing their statement on a knowledge of the law...or are then stating an opinion in the guise of legal knowledge? Perhaps they are just opining upon whether they hope something is right or wrong.

Threads like this are dangerous, in my opinion and should be shut down.

Go to a lawyer! Cough up some money and get solid legal advice unless seven years of education beyond secondary school, an intensive admissions test (the Bar) and years of experience mean nothing.
  #29  
Old 09-19-2021, 11:23 AM
rjm1cc's Avatar
rjm1cc rjm1cc is offline
Soaring Eagle member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,366
Thanks: 237
Thanked 521 Times in 241 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjb View Post
Gee, I think I shall start a thread that seeks advice on how to do self-administered open heart surgery.

To me, it is inane to seek legal advice from a bunch of people who might be named blarney or off the cuff or even dougjb. Are you aware of their credentials? What is their experience? Are they basing their statement on a knowledge of the law...or are then stating an opinion in the guise of legal knowledge? Perhaps they are just opining upon whether they hope something is right or wrong.

Threads like this are dangerous, in my opinion and should be shut down.

Go to a lawyer! Cough up some money and get solid legal advice unless seven years of education beyond secondary school, an intensive admissions test (the Bar) and years of experience mean nothing.
A big problem is you do not know what you do not know. Thus you may not know what questions to ask when you meet with a professional. I think doing some research and posting questions can help one get to an informed valid result when finally meeting with a professional.
  #30  
Old 09-19-2021, 03:37 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
Soaring Parsley
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,222
Thanks: 147
Thanked 2,204 Times in 740 Posts
Default

never mind

Last edited by Boomer; 09-20-2021 at 06:18 AM. Reason: typo
Closed Thread

Tags
trust, living, revocable, company, trusts

Thread Tools

You are viewing a new design of the TOTV site. Click here to revert to the old version.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 AM.