[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Ok, I keep hearing folks say "the batteries will get better in a few years." Isn't that the point? They AREN'T good now. Even if the Lithium batteries last ten years, they constantly get weaker as each month/year goes by. Who wants to take a trip to another state in an electric car? Go a hundred or so miles and have to stop for four hours or more to charge the car? A normally 8 hour trip will take you a couple days to complete. If I wanted to take that much time, I could use a horse.
Over charge the batteries and start a dangerous fire. Cost of replacing the batteries, might as well purchase a new car. If they ever outlaw gas propelled cars, I will go to leasing the car. Right now, I am getting rid of my battery powered golf cart and going to a gas fueled cart because it costs $800 to replace the batteries. Sure, lithium will last ten years but don't overheat it or you might burn down your home.
Don't try to sell the battery powered car until you can get 800-1000 miles per charge and make it safe from overcharging/over heating. Then get the price down to a price that the average earner can afford.
Like anyone wants to sit at a charging station for four hours!

Uh, what? Seriously, I think you slept through the past 5 years. You don't stop and charge for 4 hours anymore - 20 or 30 minutes, long enough to pee and get a soda. Driving 8 hours straight without a break is not safe.

Your 8-hour trip is maybe 9 hours worst case.

You don't overcharge batteries, that is not up to you anymore, it is up to the built-in charger.

There is a reason almost every (including exotic expensive makers) car manufacturer has announced plans to convert to, to include EVs in their line up.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Uh, what? Seriously, I think you slept through the past 5 years. You don't stop and charge for 4 hours anymore - 20 or 30 minutes, long enough to pee and get a soda. Driving 8 hours straight without a break is not safe.

Your 8-hour trip is maybe 9 hours worst case.

You don't overcharge batteries, that is not up to you anymore, it is up to the built-in charger.

There is a reason almost every (including exotic expensive makers) car manufacturer has announced plans to convert to, to include EVs in their line up.

...........and most are 300+ miles per charge.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

...........and most are 300+ miles per charge.

Yes, which is around 5 to 6 hours without a break.

[Dana1963]

If you're so concerned about the electrical grid being upgraded then maybe we should stop building homes in our regional.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Dana1963

If you're so concerned about the electrical grid being upgraded then maybe we should stop building homes in our regional.

There is a huge difference between the power draw of a typical single family home and the much higher draw of a Tesla 240 Volt outlet...

[Diver Man]

I have been working in automotive engineering for over 35 years, and with EV cars for the past 8 years. I'm not drinking the "kool-aid " when it comes to EV's. GM has recently released that they do not want you to charge your Bolt EV unintended, and not in a garage, due to recent fires. The fact is , that Tesla makes more money selling carb credits to other manufacturers, and their technology. The other issue with EV's is that the stated range is under perfect conditions, you lose a lot of range in cold weather or very hot weather, due to keeping the battery's heated or cooled, which uses energy,. The battery cost replacement in a bolt t is 8000 dollars. The trucks are another story, when you tow something behind your truck, you lose half your range, and the fact that you need to disconnect your camper, trailer, etc. To charge is not convenient. FMVSS requirements, like defrost, and heat, and other energy hogging issues, also cut down the range. I have driven EV's around a lot of the country, and seldom see the range listed. I know you have regine of the battery's when braking or going down hills, but this does not add a lot of range.We had a storm roll thru the other day, lost power for 4 days, no way of charging your EV at home.I know that EV's are the future, but I will always have a ICE vehicle as my primary driver.

[coralway]

An excellent investment since July 2019

[spd2918]

I will be interested in electric cars when they build more nuke plants to power them. Burning coal to power "green" cars is beyond stupid.

And don't get me started on the carbon credits scam or giving taxpayer funds to purchase luxury cars.

[biker1]

There are currently only two nuclear reactors under construction in the US. I don't see it as growth industry, unfortunately. The percentage of power generated by coal has been dropping partly because natural gas is a better deal. Currently in the US, 40% of electric power comes from natural gas, 20% from coal, 20% from nuclear, and 20% for renewables (wind, hydro, solar). The percentage from coal will probably continue to drop.

Regarding subsides to car buyers, the Government likes to pick winners and losers. There are also subsides for solar panels, almost all of which come from Asia.

Originally Posted by spd2918

I will be interested in electric cars when they build more nuke plants to power them. Burning coal to power "green" cars is beyond stupid.

And don't get me started on the carbon credits scam or giving taxpayer funds to purchase luxury cars.

[dtennent]

I have never seen a story about a horse spontaneously combusting. Come to think of it, they don't require any electricity either. Wow, now if we could only find horse drawn golf carts...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by dtennent

I have never seen a story about a horse spontaneously combusting. Come to think of it, they don't require any electricity either. Wow, now if we could only find horse drawn golf carts...

But there is quite a bit of Methane produced...

[spd2918]

I should have said traditional fossil fuels instead of coal, as natural gas is not green either. In Florida coal and natural gas account for about two thirds of our electrical power.

Nuclear energy is the cleanest power currently available.

[biker1]

No, in Florida it is about 80% for natural gas and coal - mostly natural gas. There is little nuclear power in Florida, about 12%. There is also not much renewable - less than 5%. Except for a couple of reactors being built in GA, nuclear appears to have no future in the US. While that could change, I would not count on it.

When electricity is produced by coal and gas, electric cars are much more efficient than gas cars in terms of the amount of energy consumed. Why is this? The generation of electricity in power plants is pretty efficient and transmission losses are small because of the high voltages used. Electric motors are typically 95% efficient in converting electricity to motion. There are some small losses involved in recharging batteries. Gas cars are only about 30% efficient in converting the energy in gasoline to motion. Electric cars take more energy to manufacture but recoup it quickly.

Originally Posted by spd2918

I should have said traditional fossil fuels instead of coal, as natural gas is not green either. In Florida coal and natural gas account for about two thirds of our electrical power.

Nuclear energy is the cleanest power currently available.

[spd2918]

Originally Posted by biker1

No, in Florida it is about 80% for natural gas and coal - mostly natural gas. There is little nuclear power in Florida, about 12%. There is also not much renewable - less than 5%. Except for a couple of reactors being built in GA, nuclear appears to have no future in the US. While that could change, I would not count on it.

When electricity is produced by coal and gas, electric cars are much more efficient than gas cars in terms of the amount of energy consumed. Why is this? The generation of electricity in power plants is pretty efficient and transmission losses are small because of the high voltages used. Electric motors are typically 95% efficient in converting electricity to motion. There are some small losses involved in recharging batteries. Gas cars are only about 30% efficient in converting the energy in gasoline to motion. Electric cars take more energy to manufacture but recoup it quickly.

I'm not sure what your point is, as sources give different percentages from different studies and time spans. All sources show natural gas as the main current source of electricity and most show coal as the second. Electric car champions never want to talk about that.

Electricity is mainly produced from fossil fuels, thus electric cars are mainly fossil fuel burners that are not green. Add to that the environmental cost of strip mining for battery materials and you have an argument that electric cars are more damaging than modern ICE cars.

My point about nuclear energy (again, in case people missed it):
Electric cars make environmental sense when this country realizes nuke power is the best option for power sources.

[biker1]

OK, I'll tell you what my point is: your numbers were wrong. I gave you the current numbers. And I stated that most electricity was generate by natural gas. Go reread my post.

Yes, electricity, especially in Florida, is mainly produced by fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are used to generate most of the electricity in the US. That is pretty clear. The point is that the total energy use by electric cars is much less than gas cars. Again, the energy use by electrics is less than gas cars since the generation, transmission, and use of electricity by electric motors is much more efficient than gas cars. Nothing is green. Virtually everything is manufactured using electricity generated from fossil fuels and requires natural resources mined from the ground. It is a matter of which technology uses less total energy. Buy an electric car or don't - nobody cares what you do.

You can stop talking about nuclear. It has no future in this country. And your comment about when electric cars make environmental sense is your opinion and most definitely not fact.

Originally Posted by spd2918

I'm not sure what your point is, as sources give different percentages from different studies and time spans. All sources show natural gas as the main current source of electricity and most show coal as the second. Electric car champions never want to talk about that.

Electricity is mainly produced from fossil fuels, thus electric cars are mainly fossil fuel burners that are not green. Add to that the environmental cost of strip mining for battery materials and you have an argument that electric cars are more damaging than modern ICE cars.

My point about nuclear energy (again, in case people missed it):
Electric cars make environmental sense when this country realizes nuke power is the best option for power sources.