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-   -   Thoughts on AT&T (T) as a stock to purchase? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/investment-talk-158/thoughts-t-t-stock-purchase-318995/)

DAVES 04-29-2021 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1936449)
Some of these people give me food for thought and that makes it worth going, not to mention if the dinner is in a good restaurant we have wanted to try.

Do think it is wrong to make an appointment and not show up. Better to just tell them you are not interested in further discussions.

We were supposed to learn, you get nothing for nothing. So many opportunities. One I recall was from match books-FREE STAMPS. They got me with that one. Perhaps of more local interest at about 13 I sent in a coupon from a bus for great land deals in Florida. They were really hounding me. I was wealthy. My income at 13 was my allowance. It was less than a dollar a week. Took my dad telling them I was 13 till they stopped calling.

Those free diner things. Hum, perhaps they have stopped or perhaps they target people who have just moved in. Selling investments that way. We may think we are immune but we are not. They are planned. You show up for the diner. They start their sales pitch. You will not leave you are there for the free diner. After diner, and a bit more of their sales pitch they hand you a form to fill out. It is shocking how much VALUABLE information people will FREELY give to them. Name, age, address, cell number, your net worth, where your money is now etc etc etc. We protect your information. Next time you go to a free protected information seminar, misspell your name. It is then easy to see that they are selling your information. It is worth far more than what the diner costs them.

I think it was my aunt who corrected my file on SPOKEO. Surveys, I never give out correct information. At one time due to some survey another survey where I supplied false information, it stated I am well over 150 years old and am still doing surgery and have more money that Buffet and Gates combined.

Stu from NYC 04-29-2021 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 1937120)
My view. A large part of knowledge is knowing what you don't know. For many people, they don't know but will gladly argue that what they don't know but they are sure they are right.

I am aware that there is an all or none option. I'm not sure if you chose that option it, might prevent your order from going through, As I stated I have had trades where it is say a few hundred shares and it trades in groups of weird numbers all at the same 10th of a second. Like 6 shares, 8 shares etc etc etc it seems to be impossible and yet, I've seen it many times. I don't recall ever placing a sell at whatever price I've put in and had only part of it sold. We do not see what is going on. I assume once part of your sell order goes though you get put on some sort of priority status.

Re: not recommending a stock. I proudly think different than most. In discussing a stock I always make it clear that I HAVE and say it as many times as necessary for it to sink in, I am not an expert. I will be happy if you make money because it means that I have made money. If, you lose money, I to have lost money. When, talking money, truth is it is very rare that anyone will tell you the truth. Many people even without knowing it lie to themselves. Wow I made xxxx on this trade and xxxx on that trade. It is far to easy to forget wow I lost it all plus on that trade. I like the fidelity reports. It keeps me honest with myself.

Re: 1% to an advisor. I don't know what your position is on this. As you said they do not take 1% of your gains. I may be wrong but I think that was made illegal at the time of the great depression. People do not understand math. If, an advisor is charging you 1%
and your account is 10,000 I don't think they would take such an account but the math is the same. 10,000x.01=$100. If, you make one percent that year they take your entire gain. If, you lose money that year say 1%, they still take their 1%. Fuzzy math but you are down not 1% but 2%. Nothing is free. Is it worth it? Perhaps.

Re: calling a TAX a fee in an IRA.
Actually the same is true in a ROTH. When, you sell a stock there is a FEE that goes to the government. I had looked it up in the past. This FEE that is a TAX on what is supposed to be a non-taxible account is as I stated a word spin. Right now, if, I recall it is like .15 on any sale. Like ,25 on 10,000. Yes, it is nominal. We should know from experience any TAX always works the same. It is slipped in and then it goes up.

As far as RMD. It is now 72. I have about a year to go. I am planing on what to do.
Last I looked giving to charity is limited to 100,000. I'm not sure what my number is.
But, I do expect tax laws to change in a year. I read years ago they need to keep changing the tax laws to prevent people from figuring out how to minimize the taxes they pay. There is no problem finding people ready, willing and able to take the money I've worked for.

Taxes have become so complicated we have people (CPA) to make recommendations.

Boomer 04-29-2021 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 1937120)
My view. A large part of knowledge is knowing what you don't know. For many people, they don't know but will gladly argue that what they don't know but they are sure they are right.

I am aware that there is an all or none option. I'm not sure if you chose that option it, might prevent your order from going through, As I stated I have had trades where it is say a few hundred shares and it trades in groups of weird numbers all at the same 10th of a second. Like 6 shares, 8 shares etc etc etc it seems to be impossible and yet, I've seen it many times. I don't recall ever placing a sell at whatever price I've put in and had only part of it sold. We do not see what is going on. I assume once part of your sell order goes though you get put on some sort of priority status.

Re: not recommending a stock. I proudly think different than most. In discussing a stock I always make it clear that I HAVE and say it as many times as necessary for it to sink in, I am not an expert. I will be happy if you make money because it means that I have made money. If, you lose money, I to have lost money. When, talking money, truth is it is very rare that anyone will tell you the truth. Many people even without knowing it lie to themselves. Wow I made xxxx on this trade and xxxx on that trade. It is far to easy to forget wow I lost it all plus on that trade. I like the fidelity reports. It keeps me honest with myself.

Re: 1% to an advisor. I don't know what your position is on this. As you said they do not take 1% of your gains. I may be wrong but I think that was made illegal at the time of the great depression. People do not understand math. If, an advisor is charging you 1%
and your account is 10,000 I don't think they would take such an account but the math is the same. 10,000x.01=$100. If, you make one percent that year they take your entire gain. If, you lose money that year say 1%, they still take their 1%. Fuzzy math but you are down not 1% but 2%. Nothing is free. Is it worth it? Perhaps.

Re: calling a TAX a fee in an IRA.
Actually the same is true in a ROTH. When, you sell a stock there is a FEE that goes to the government. I had looked it up in the past. This FEE that is a TAX on what is supposed to be a non-taxible account is as I stated a word spin. Right now, if, I recall it is like .15 on any sale. Like ,25 on 10,000. Yes, it is nominal. We should know from experience any TAX always works the same. It is slipped in and then it goes up.

As far as RMD. It is now 72. I have about a year to go. I am planing on what to do.
Last I looked giving to charity is limited to 100,000. I'm not sure what my number is.
But, I do expect tax laws to change in a year. I read years ago they need to keep changing the tax laws to prevent people from figuring out how to minimize the taxes they pay. There is no problem finding people ready, willing and able to take the money I've worked for.

:ho: DAVES, regarding your first point, you, sir, have been validated by me because the very day I posted about "all or none," it kicked me out. I had plugged in a trade as such and left the house. Later that day, I took a peek at the close by phone and saw that the day's high was exactly the price I had put in. Thought I had sold. Got back home. Logged in to the account and :boom: -- what you said. (Even though I have, a few times, had the thing happen with the divided numbers of shares trading, I will henceforth let the limit price ride. With no commissions now, I just need to get over myself on that one.)

Speaking of advisors, I never spend time with any of those guys who want to buy me dinner first. I used to go sometimes, years ago, because I thought I might learn something, but, even then, I never gave out any information. I guess I did learn a few things -- like what I did not want to do. One guy, a long time ago, was even asking for SSNs.

(Note to Stu from NYC: I agree with your response earlier about the guy with all the letters after his name who goes to dinners, makes appointments, and then stiffs the presenter by not showing up. Your comment was low-key and pretty darned gracious though. My comment? Such arrogant, bordering on narcissistic, behavior is not what I would want in an advisor.)

DAVES, about that fee -- so THAT'S what that small amount is.

And, about the RMD -- since the last tax change made it nearly impossible to use the charitable deduction, the QCD, I think, seems to work out better sometimes because the money never appears in the AGI. Managing the RMD with a QCD could help some taxpayers to stay below Medicare’s IRMAA -- although for anybody nearing the IRMAA threshold, they would need to run the numbers to decide if they would rather be charitable or take the hit -- answers will vary, of course.

Boomer

Stu from NYC 04-29-2021 06:20 PM

Used to mostly own stocks but have gone to now invest in good no load mutual funds with stable management and good historical results.

Get good diversification and have gotten good growth over the years. These days find that funds recommended by Kiplingers have given me good results and diversification by being in numerous types of funds.

With hindsight should have put most of my money with the Oracle of Omaha but not that smart.

And by going to a number of financial dinners have gone to some of the best restaurants around here for free. How great is that!

l2ridehd 04-30-2021 06:38 AM

I have been a buyer and seller of AT&T for many years. I buy in the low range and sell in it’s high range. $30 to $37. And collect the dividend while owning. Solid company, great return, pretty safe. There are others that follow this same pattern. I count this as a “bond” in my asset allocation because of it’s return. It actually behaves much like a bond. As long as your overall investment plan is based on diversity, AT&T is a good addition to most portfolio,s.

DAVES 05-04-2021 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 1936204)
Any answer here would be to short to be of any real value. I currently hold (T) a commitment to hold the dividend and not cut it, is a statement. It is not binding or a guarantee. Depending on when I bought my shares some are worth more than I paid and others are worth less than I paid. Neither counts the dividend I do not drip dividends. My view since we no longer pay commissions dripping makes zero sense.
As far as the dividends, (T) is borrowing money to pay it-not a good business model.

I have decided to sell my most expensive shares and take the tax loss. In every stock trade there is a buyer and a seller. If, you are buying and it hits my price your shares may well be very local.

Update 5/4/21 T hit my sell price Low for day 31.55 high 32.08, close 32.02. I sold my most expensive shares today at 31.99. Whoever bought them, they are up nine cents a share-good for them.. Would be amusing if they are still in the villages.

TNGary 05-04-2021 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l2ridehd (Post 1937328)
I have been a buyer and seller of AT&T for many years. I buy in the low range and sell in it’s high range. $30 to $37. And collect the dividend while owning. Solid company, great return, pretty safe. There are others that follow this same pattern. I count this as a “bond” in my asset allocation because of it’s return. It actually behaves much like a bond. As long as your overall investment plan is based on diversity, AT&T is a good addition to most portfolio,s.

Excellent comment regarding consideration of allocation as a bond, creative thinking and does make sense. I suspect once the ship is righted, may not transition south of 30, time will tell. Very interesting day today, up 1.65%.

Pairadocs 05-05-2021 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diamond2005 (Post 1936105)
Check their debt! If you are buying strictly for dividend,
then go for it. It will not appreciate much until it sheds
some debt.

Agree! I am long term holder for the dividends but agree not going to see much appreciation due to debt. Also holding onto Ford...doubting the wisdom of that one, probably should have cut that one loose long ago ???

TNGary 05-16-2021 09:50 PM

Monday 05/16 expect announcement, Rumors that ATT will merge with Discovery channel and a possible spin off. Will be interesting to see if confirmed and would expect some type of market reaction.

HandyGrandpap 05-17-2021 04:37 PM

Appears merger with spin off and dividend cut.
Good news or bad news for holders? Curious of thoughts?

Boomer 05-17-2021 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandyGrandpap (Post 1946222)
Appears merger with spin off and dividend cut.
Good news or bad news for holders? Curious of thoughts?

You will find an article titled, "What AT&T's WarnerMedia Spinoff Means for Your Dividends" -- written today and found on kiplinger.com

Boomer

manaboutown 05-17-2021 05:34 PM

"AT&T’s dividend: AT&T CEO John Stankey said on Monday that AT&T plans to “reset” its dividend after the transaction, which sounds like a euphemism for “cut.” The company said in its release on Monday morning that it will target an annual dividend payout ratio of 40% to 43% of free cash flow, which it forecasts as being at least $20 billion in 2022. That means about an annual dividend payment in the low $8 billion range, versus about $15 billion last year for a dividend payout ratio in the high 50%. AT&T investors get a stake in the new media company, but the dividend payment on their AT&T shares will drop by roughly half—from $2.08 per share annually, to some $1.10, based on the most recent available share count."

From: Here Are the Winners and Losers of the AT&T-WarnerMedia-Discovery Mega Deal | Barron's

CoachKandSportsguy 05-18-2021 02:49 AM

So the lesson learned here is not to invest in stocks for the dividend which has a high dividend and a very high debt load. In the early 2010's, there was a big push by investors to force companies to lever up with increased debt with low interest rates to pay out increase dividend payouts and push prices higher.

I heard stories of some of this in action, so the accounting analysis is that the EPS per share is minorly impacted with low rate debt as only the interest on the debt is deductible on the income statement. However, the principle still has to be paid, and that shows up only in the cash flow statements. Well, the investors were just greedy for income or price appreciation as always their primary goal. . . So years later the debt is coming due, the business hasn't kept up as the economy is not growing like it did 20 years ago, and companies are stuck with a heavy debt, income which has been slowing down and interest and dividend payments choking off cash flow for investments. . . .

Likewise, as Bloomberg mentioned by one of the analysts, telecom companies requires large cash investment to maintain their services against the competitors, and AT&T is slowly falling behind. One of the sneaky things AT&T did was to limit wifi calling during the day on the service plans about a year ago . . . which then forced phones to switch over to cell calling and people's bills went up tremendously. . . was not great for customer renewals. .. a sign that they needed cash . . . it was temporary, but now they have run out of temporary

The issue with individual stocks is specific event and management risk, which can be diversified away with a larger portfolio. . . GE was in the same boat, and two different friends worked there and told me of the revenue manipulation for growth until they reached the limit of revenue legally, went beyond legal, and then the company collapsed in price due to debt and accounting issues . . . now been selling off divisions to pay off debt. . .

so with debt there is no free ride, with issuing shares, dilution, the company lives on in its current form. . . grad school case final exam, i picked debt over equity. . lost my good grades during the semester for a lower final grade. . . . will always remember that. . and the pandemic caused more debt than equity issues. . .

finance guy

dewilson58 05-18-2021 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandyGrandpap (Post 1946222)
Appears merger with spin off and dividend cut.
Good news or bad news for holders? Curious of thoughts?

Buy, Buy, Buy.

Boomer 05-18-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1946337)
Buy, Buy, Buy.

No. No. No.

Remember GE.

Investing in dividend stocks cannot be the set-it-and-forget-it routine. Even utilities are not the safety nets they were once thought to be. Dominion (D) slashed its dividend by 33% in late 2020. Debt did in D’s dividend, too.

I have concerns right now about the national real estate market. Selling prices are bloated due to low inventory and bidding wars — and also due to a bigger-than-usual emotional component in this one.

Retirees who want to downsize but want to stay in their natural habitat, instead of moving far from home, are fighting it out with the first-time buyers, bidding smaller home prices up, up, up.

The real estate market has a way of growing arms and legs reaching into the overall economy. The current national RE market better breathe — before it creates a false sense of wealth tied to home equity that turns out to be phantom equity. (Will homeowners beware of banks bearing HELOCs?)

We are a nation of amnesiacs.

Cassandra Boomer

DAVES 05-25-2021 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNGary (Post 1935278)
Company has numerous times, CEO, confirmed commitment to 6-7% dividend.
Q1 was on the upside
high debt but appears able to manage debt and still have some free cash flow.

Any thoughts as a stock to purchase?

Like any stock, you need to decide to hold, buy, sell or buy more or sell some of what you hold. Commitment to hold the dividend? I sold off my most expensive shares into the caused rise. I still held quite a bit that due to having sold off my most expensvie shares was at a 12% gain, not counting dividends. I did not want to pay short term taxes. The market fixed that problem for me. The stock dove on the deal.
I can see the future. You can bet they will be sued. The CEO cannot claim he was not aware of the pending deal when he said the dividend was secure.
If, you have not been involved in any of these suits, the attorneys will make tons of money, you will not get a dime.

I sold all of mine. As of today 5/25/21 it is below what I got for mine.

DAVES 05-25-2021 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 1936433)
WOW! a friend of mine has a CFP, CFA and CMT. He would go to the dinners, get a nice meal, sign up for a meeting, and never show up to the meeting. He also would ask questions as he know the answers, and some stopped sending him invitations.

I prefer to make my own mistakes and pay my education to learn than to give my money to someone else and lose it all.

Yes, there are very, very few people who will create a great personal plan for you,customized to see what you can do, etc.

finance guy

Your friend. I've done presentations not in finance. There is always some fool that is there to disrupt the meeting. They have always been the same. Have been like that since third grade. I am great at forcefully showing him or her to be a fool.

There are terms for people who mooch a meal. None are polite or meant to flatter.

DAVES 05-25-2021 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1946484)
No. No. No.

Remember GE.

Investing in dividend stocks cannot be the set-it-and-forget-it routine. Even utilities are not the safety nets they were once thought to be. Dominion (D) slashed its dividend by 33% in late 2020. Debt did in D’s dividend, too.

I have concerns right now about the national real estate market. Selling prices are bloated due to low inventory and bidding wars — and also due to a bigger-than-usual emotional component in this one.

Retirees who want to downsize but want to stay in their natural habitat, instead of moving far from home, are fighting it out with the first-time buyers, bidding smaller home prices up, up, up.

The real estate market has a way of growing arms and legs reaching into the overall economy. The current national RE market better breathe — before it creates a false sense of wealth tied to home equity that turns out to be phantom equity. (Will homeowners beware of banks bearing HELOCs?)

We are a nation of amnesiacs.

Cassandra Boomer

Reality, we are a herd mentality. Very few thinkers in the mob.
We all know stocks only go up, real estate only goes up EXCEPT WHEN THEY DON'T.


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