[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by jimhurtt@twc.com

AT&T will be coming into a lot of money in January. They just screwed over thousands of retirees by reducing benefits. Drastically lowered life insurance coverage payouts, Death benefit payouts and Health insurance coverage. These are existing retirees they are hurting.

Is this a Buy recommendation??

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Ah, yes, what a surprise — snide comments from the patrol boys. Not sure why some posters think they have to judge and approve every question.

Anyway, OP (TNGary), I understand what you are asking — because I also like to talk generally about individual stocks sometimes.

It looks like you are watching T closely. That dividend is tempting and you are aware of the debt thing.

I need to look at whether they have increased the dividend again. CEOs do not like to lose the status that goes with years and years of consecutive dividend increases — even if the increase has to be a tiny one. (I am going to look this up later.)

If you don’t own any T right now, you might want to buy a few shares — which will make it more interesting for you to follow, without betting the farm. See how owning it makes you feel. (Yeah, I have to determine how a stock makes me “feel” but maybe that’s a woman thing. )

I looked this morning to see how Fidelity’s rating looked and the computer-generated number was at the low end of neutral. But I am never sure what goes into that number.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion, and good luck with your decision.

Boomer

The rules of the game have changed dramatically. First of all access to information and opinion is easy to find. You mention Fidelity. They offer no commission trades. You can buy partial shares. I regularly discover what I don't know. Much is rumor and opinion. A trade of say 100 shares. It sometimes shows say 10 trades to fill an order for 100 shares. Three shares, six shares, 20 shares etc oh and all at the same tenth of a second. No commission, and no advantage to buying round lots-100 shares, makes it a whole new ballgame.

In an IRA it is supposed to be TAX FREE till you withdraw the funds and they are taxed at you regular income rate. That, right now small nuance TAX they charge you every time you sell. Ask them about this TAX and they will spin it as a FEE not a tax. A tax by any other name is still a tax. Bring it up and they may well ask if you know DAVE.

I think it was Ben Franklin who said watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Nah, you weren't rude, more like direct, which some people don't like as much.

My wife is a very beat around the bush type, particularly in typing emails to customers, vendors, and colleagues, not wanting to be just direct and to the point.

I tend to be direct as well, some times too much, but I also know my audience so that if I know the person to whom I am directly speaking and they are not the direct type, then I don't do the direct type, but this is a bbs, web site, and anyone can be offended by anything, and that's where differing opinions makes the world go round.

corp finance guy

Amazed how people will come here asking for advise from people they know nothing about.

Last week went to a financial dinner with the so called advisor telling us how many people he has helped in over 20 years.

Noticed he said nothing about his background and didnt want questions so during the dinner planned to ask questions.

His office manager comes around to collect the sheets on setting up appointments so ask her the question. She has no clue.

Later on he comes around and I ask the question and he starts telling me about his childhood and early schooling so finally look at him and say you do realize that is not what I am asking.

Than he tells me about the on line courses he took. Never mentioned any classes in whatever schooling he did. Said thank you and he walked away.

Remarkably nobody seems to think this is important when he is asking you to entrust your life sayings with him.

Was a very nice dinner though.

[bobchap]

AT&T does have a great dividend yield. However, I am surprised know one has mentioned the pay out ratio which is -594%!! This is not a good sign. But everyone has their own risk level.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by bobchap

AT&T does have a great dividend yield. However, I am surprised know one has mentioned the pay out ratio which is -594%!! This is not a good sign. But everyone has their own risk level.

Look past the headlines.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by DAVES

The rules of the game have changed dramatically. First of all access to information and opinion is easy to find. You mention Fidelity. They offer no commission trades. You can buy partial shares. I regularly discover what I don't know. Much is rumor and opinion. A trade of say 100 shares. It sometimes shows say 10 trades to fill an order for 100 shares. Three shares, six shares, 20 shares etc oh and all at the same tenth of a second. No commission, and no advantage to buying round lots-100 shares, makes it a whole new ballgame.

In an IRA it is supposed to be TAX FREE till you withdraw the funds and they are taxed at you regular income rate. That, right now small nuance TAX they charge you every time you sell. Ask them about this TAX and they will spin it as a FEE not a tax. A tax by any other name is still a tax. Bring it up and they may well ask if you know DAVE.

I think it was Ben Franklin who said watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.

Yes. Those kinds of records of trades can be tedious. I always set a limit price on a trade and now I plug in “all or none” on the order. With no commissions now, I realize making the order read “all or none” might seem moot. But I just don’t want to see little batches traded within nano-seconds when I look at buy and sell histories.

I never recommend a stock — although, obviously, sometimes I do like to discuss stocks. Earlier in this thread, I did recommend playing around, just a little, with a stock to see what you really think about owning it — for real — for a more significant amount or time. (Easiest done, if possible, inside an IRA so no tax consequences for capturing a gain if you want to.)

Nobody can predict the market. I am aware that even without commissions built in and semi-hidden fees, a lot of those giving “expert” advice get paid on a percentage basis. If it’s 1% a year, they tap the account quarterly. Whether the client is making money or not, the advisor always does — obviously more when the investments are up — but never “nothing.”

Dave, I am not clear on what you mean about IRAs and the “fee” you mention. All I know is that IRAs remain tax-deferred until tapped, whether by choice or because the RMD age has been reached. That’s when the tax-hit happens. (At RMD age, using a QCD, if charitably inclined, can be a tax advantage and a good one — definitely worth learning about to consider, at least.)

I think if you hit an IRA before 59 & 1/2, there is an early withdrawal tax penalty and I am pretty sure it’s 10%. But those are the only things I know about tax consequences from an IRA. I don’t know anything about a “fee” other than the tax thing.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation.

Boomer

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by bobchap

AT&T does have a great dividend yield. However, I am surprised know one has mentioned the pay out ratio which is -594%!! This is not a good sign. But everyone has their own risk level.

Yep. Just looked at some research and saw that. Never saw a payout ratio like that before. (Pause for thought.)

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Amazed how people will come here asking for advise from people they know nothing about.

Last week went to a financial dinner with the so called advisor telling us how many people he has helped in over 20 years.

Noticed he said nothing about his background and didnt want questions so during the dinner planned to ask questions.

His office manager comes around to collect the sheets on setting up appointments so ask her the question. She has no clue.

Later on he comes around and I ask the question and he starts telling me about his childhood and early schooling so finally look at him and say you do realize that is not what I am asking.

Than he tells me about the on line courses he took. Never mentioned any classes in whatever schooling he did. Said thank you and he walked away.

Remarkably nobody seems to think this is important when he is asking you to entrust your life sayings with him.

Was a very nice dinner though.

WOW! a friend of mine has a CFP, CFA and CMT. He would go to the dinners, get a nice meal, sign up for a meeting, and never show up to the meeting. He also would ask questions as he know the answers, and some stopped sending him invitations.

I prefer to make my own mistakes and pay my education to learn than to give my money to someone else and lose it all.

Yes, there are very, very few people who will create a great personal plan for you,customized to see what you can do, etc.

finance guy

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

WOW! a friend of mine has a CFP, CFA and CMT. He would go to the dinners, get a nice meal, sign up for a meeting, and never show up to the meeting. He also would ask questions as he know the answers, and some stopped sending him invitations.

I prefer to make my own mistakes and pay my education to learn than to give my money to someone else and lose it all.

Yes, there are very, very few people who will create a great personal plan for you,customized to see what you can do, etc.

finance guy

Some of these people give me food for thought and that makes it worth going, not to mention if the dinner is in a good restaurant we have wanted to try.

Do think it is wrong to make an appointment and not show up. Better to just tell them you are not interested in further discussions.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Yes. Those kinds of records of trades can be tedious. I always set a limit price on a trade and now I plug in “all or none” on the order. With no commissions now, I realize making the order read “all or none” might seem moot. But I just don’t want to see little batches traded within nano-seconds when I look at buy and sell histories.

I never recommend a stock — although, obviously, sometimes I do like to discuss stocks. Earlier in this thread, I did recommend playing around, just a little, with a stock to see what you really think about owning it — for real — for a more significant amount or time. (Easiest done, if possible, inside an IRA so no tax consequences for capturing a gain if you want to.)

Nobody can predict the market. I am aware that even without commissions built in and semi-hidden fees, a lot of those giving “expert” advice get paid on a percentage basis. If it’s 1% a year, they tap the account quarterly. Whether the client is making money or not, the advisor always does — obviously more when the investments are up — but never “nothing.”

Dave, I am not clear on what you mean about IRAs and the “fee” you mention. All I know is that IRAs remain tax-deferred until tapped, whether by choice or because the RMD age has been reached. That’s when the tax-hit happens. (At RMD age, using a QCD, if charitably inclined, can be a tax advantage and a good one — definitely worth learning about to consider, at least.)

I think if you hit an IRA before 59 & 1/2, there is an early withdrawal tax penalty and I am pretty sure it’s 10%. But those are the only things I know about tax consequences from an IRA. I don’t know anything about a “fee” other than the tax thing.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation.

Boomer

My view. A large part of knowledge is knowing what you don't know. For many people, they don't know but will gladly argue that what they don't know but they are sure they are right.

I am aware that there is an all or none option. I'm not sure if you chose that option it, might prevent your order from going through, As I stated I have had trades where it is say a few hundred shares and it trades in groups of weird numbers all at the same 10th of a second. Like 6 shares, 8 shares etc etc etc it seems to be impossible and yet, I've seen it many times. I don't recall ever placing a sell at whatever price I've put in and had only part of it sold. We do not see what is going on. I assume once part of your sell order goes though you get put on some sort of priority status.

Re: not recommending a stock. I proudly think different than most. In discussing a stock I always make it clear that I HAVE and say it as many times as necessary for it to sink in, I am not an expert. I will be happy if you make money because it means that I have made money. If, you lose money, I to have lost money. When, talking money, truth is it is very rare that anyone will tell you the truth. Many people even without knowing it lie to themselves. Wow I made xxxx on this trade and xxxx on that trade. It is far to easy to forget wow I lost it all plus on that trade. I like the fidelity reports. It keeps me honest with myself.

Re: 1% to an advisor. I don't know what your position is on this. As you said they do not take 1% of your gains. I may be wrong but I think that was made illegal at the time of the great depression. People do not understand math. If, an advisor is charging you 1%
and your account is 10,000 I don't think they would take such an account but the math is the same. 10,000x.01=$100. If, you make one percent that year they take your entire gain. If, you lose money that year say 1%, they still take their 1%. Fuzzy math but you are down not 1% but 2%. Nothing is free. Is it worth it? Perhaps.

Re: calling a TAX a fee in an IRA.
Actually the same is true in a ROTH. When, you sell a stock there is a FEE that goes to the government. I had looked it up in the past. This FEE that is a TAX on what is supposed to be a non-taxible account is as I stated a word spin. Right now, if, I recall it is like .15 on any sale. Like ,25 on 10,000. Yes, it is nominal. We should know from experience any TAX always works the same. It is slipped in and then it goes up.

As far as RMD. It is now 72. I have about a year to go. I am planing on what to do.
Last I looked giving to charity is limited to 100,000. I'm not sure what my number is.
But, I do expect tax laws to change in a year. I read years ago they need to keep changing the tax laws to prevent people from figuring out how to minimize the taxes they pay. There is no problem finding people ready, willing and able to take the money I've worked for.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Some of these people give me food for thought and that makes it worth going, not to mention if the dinner is in a good restaurant we have wanted to try.

Do think it is wrong to make an appointment and not show up. Better to just tell them you are not interested in further discussions.

We were supposed to learn, you get nothing for nothing. So many opportunities. One I recall was from match books-FREE STAMPS. They got me with that one. Perhaps of more local interest at about 13 I sent in a coupon from a bus for great land deals in Florida. They were really hounding me. I was wealthy. My income at 13 was my allowance. It was less than a dollar a week. Took my dad telling them I was 13 till they stopped calling.

Those free diner things. Hum, perhaps they have stopped or perhaps they target people who have just moved in. Selling investments that way. We may think we are immune but we are not. They are planned. You show up for the diner. They start their sales pitch. You will not leave you are there for the free diner. After diner, and a bit more of their sales pitch they hand you a form to fill out. It is shocking how much VALUABLE information people will FREELY give to them. Name, age, address, cell number, your net worth, where your money is now etc etc etc. We protect your information. Next time you go to a free protected information seminar, misspell your name. It is then easy to see that they are selling your information. It is worth far more than what the diner costs them.

I think it was my aunt who corrected my file on SPOKEO. Surveys, I never give out correct information. At one time due to some survey another survey where I supplied false information, it stated I am well over 150 years old and am still doing surgery and have more money that Buffet and Gates combined.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by DAVES

My view. A large part of knowledge is knowing what you don't know. For many people, they don't know but will gladly argue that what they don't know but they are sure they are right.

I am aware that there is an all or none option. I'm not sure if you chose that option it, might prevent your order from going through, As I stated I have had trades where it is say a few hundred shares and it trades in groups of weird numbers all at the same 10th of a second. Like 6 shares, 8 shares etc etc etc it seems to be impossible and yet, I've seen it many times. I don't recall ever placing a sell at whatever price I've put in and had only part of it sold. We do not see what is going on. I assume once part of your sell order goes though you get put on some sort of priority status.

Re: not recommending a stock. I proudly think different than most. In discussing a stock I always make it clear that I HAVE and say it as many times as necessary for it to sink in, I am not an expert. I will be happy if you make money because it means that I have made money. If, you lose money, I to have lost money. When, talking money, truth is it is very rare that anyone will tell you the truth. Many people even without knowing it lie to themselves. Wow I made xxxx on this trade and xxxx on that trade. It is far to easy to forget wow I lost it all plus on that trade. I like the fidelity reports. It keeps me honest with myself.

Re: 1% to an advisor. I don't know what your position is on this. As you said they do not take 1% of your gains. I may be wrong but I think that was made illegal at the time of the great depression. People do not understand math. If, an advisor is charging you 1%
and your account is 10,000 I don't think they would take such an account but the math is the same. 10,000x.01=$100. If, you make one percent that year they take your entire gain. If, you lose money that year say 1%, they still take their 1%. Fuzzy math but you are down not 1% but 2%. Nothing is free. Is it worth it? Perhaps.

Re: calling a TAX a fee in an IRA.
Actually the same is true in a ROTH. When, you sell a stock there is a FEE that goes to the government. I had looked it up in the past. This FEE that is a TAX on what is supposed to be a non-taxible account is as I stated a word spin. Right now, if, I recall it is like .15 on any sale. Like ,25 on 10,000. Yes, it is nominal. We should know from experience any TAX always works the same. It is slipped in and then it goes up.

As far as RMD. It is now 72. I have about a year to go. I am planing on what to do.
Last I looked giving to charity is limited to 100,000. I'm not sure what my number is.
But, I do expect tax laws to change in a year. I read years ago they need to keep changing the tax laws to prevent people from figuring out how to minimize the taxes they pay. There is no problem finding people ready, willing and able to take the money I've worked for.

Taxes have become so complicated we have people (CPA) to make recommendations.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by DAVES

My view. A large part of knowledge is knowing what you don't know. For many people, they don't know but will gladly argue that what they don't know but they are sure they are right.

I am aware that there is an all or none option. I'm not sure if you chose that option it, might prevent your order from going through, As I stated I have had trades where it is say a few hundred shares and it trades in groups of weird numbers all at the same 10th of a second. Like 6 shares, 8 shares etc etc etc it seems to be impossible and yet, I've seen it many times. I don't recall ever placing a sell at whatever price I've put in and had only part of it sold. We do not see what is going on. I assume once part of your sell order goes though you get put on some sort of priority status.

Re: not recommending a stock. I proudly think different than most. In discussing a stock I always make it clear that I HAVE and say it as many times as necessary for it to sink in, I am not an expert. I will be happy if you make money because it means that I have made money. If, you lose money, I to have lost money. When, talking money, truth is it is very rare that anyone will tell you the truth. Many people even without knowing it lie to themselves. Wow I made xxxx on this trade and xxxx on that trade. It is far to easy to forget wow I lost it all plus on that trade. I like the fidelity reports. It keeps me honest with myself.

Re: 1% to an advisor. I don't know what your position is on this. As you said they do not take 1% of your gains. I may be wrong but I think that was made illegal at the time of the great depression. People do not understand math. If, an advisor is charging you 1%
and your account is 10,000 I don't think they would take such an account but the math is the same. 10,000x.01=$100. If, you make one percent that year they take your entire gain. If, you lose money that year say 1%, they still take their 1%. Fuzzy math but you are down not 1% but 2%. Nothing is free. Is it worth it? Perhaps.

Re: calling a TAX a fee in an IRA.
Actually the same is true in a ROTH. When, you sell a stock there is a FEE that goes to the government. I had looked it up in the past. This FEE that is a TAX on what is supposed to be a non-taxible account is as I stated a word spin. Right now, if, I recall it is like .15 on any sale. Like ,25 on 10,000. Yes, it is nominal. We should know from experience any TAX always works the same. It is slipped in and then it goes up.

As far as RMD. It is now 72. I have about a year to go. I am planing on what to do.
Last I looked giving to charity is limited to 100,000. I'm not sure what my number is.
But, I do expect tax laws to change in a year. I read years ago they need to keep changing the tax laws to prevent people from figuring out how to minimize the taxes they pay. There is no problem finding people ready, willing and able to take the money I've worked for.

DAVES, regarding your first point, you, sir, have been validated by me because the very day I posted about "all or none," it kicked me out. I had plugged in a trade as such and left the house. Later that day, I took a peek at the close by phone and saw that the day's high was exactly the price I had put in. Thought I had sold. Got back home. Logged in to the account and -- what you said. (Even though I have, a few times, had the thing happen with the divided numbers of shares trading, I will henceforth let the limit price ride. With no commissions now, I just need to get over myself on that one.)

Speaking of advisors, I never spend time with any of those guys who want to buy me dinner first. I used to go sometimes, years ago, because I thought I might learn something, but, even then, I never gave out any information. I guess I did learn a few things -- like what I did not want to do. One guy, a long time ago, was even asking for SSNs.

(Note to Stu from NYC: I agree with your response earlier about the guy with all the letters after his name who goes to dinners, makes appointments, and then stiffs the presenter by not showing up. Your comment was low-key and pretty darned gracious though. My comment? Such arrogant, bordering on narcissistic, behavior is not what I would want in an advisor.)

DAVES, about that fee -- so THAT'S what that small amount is.

And, about the RMD -- since the last tax change made it nearly impossible to use the charitable deduction, the QCD, I think, seems to work out better sometimes because the money never appears in the AGI. Managing the RMD with a QCD could help some taxpayers to stay below Medicare’s IRMAA -- although for anybody nearing the IRMAA threshold, they would need to run the numbers to decide if they would rather be charitable or take the hit -- answers will vary, of course.

Boomer

[Stu from NYC]

Used to mostly own stocks but have gone to now invest in good no load mutual funds with stable management and good historical results.

Get good diversification and have gotten good growth over the years. These days find that funds recommended by Kiplingers have given me good results and diversification by being in numerous types of funds.

With hindsight should have put most of my money with the Oracle of Omaha but not that smart.

And by going to a number of financial dinners have gone to some of the best restaurants around here for free. How great is that!

[l2ridehd]

I have been a buyer and seller of AT&T for many years. I buy in the low range and sell in it’s high range. $30 to $37. And collect the dividend while owning. Solid company, great return, pretty safe. There are others that follow this same pattern. I count this as a “bond” in my asset allocation because of it’s return. It actually behaves much like a bond. As long as your overall investment plan is based on diversity, AT&T is a good addition to most portfolio,s.