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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Investment Talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/investment-talk-158/)
-   -   Warren Buffett and Bitcoin (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/investment-talk-158/warren-buffett-bitcoin-331632/)

ithos 05-03-2022 05:31 AM
Bitcoin has created fortunes for many. Like all pyramid schemes those who know how to trade it or get in early often make a profit. But there have been many losers as well but their stories are rarely told.

Keep in mind that even though it has some practical applications, it was created out of thin air so there is nothing exclusive to Bitcoin as it can be replicated many times over as it has been. Bitcoin is now only about 50% of the total crypto market cap when at one time it was 99%. Yes it was the first mover and widely adopted but that is no guarantee that it will not be replaced by a better engineered crypto coin in the future. Also the use of so called "stable coins" in trading such as tether which have extremely low audit standards makes it even more suspect.

I do not think the government should attempt to regulate private sector economic activity but the the insane decision to infect the futures and derivative markets with this illusionary industry that has no physical value increases the likelihood of making its collapse to be a systemic risk to our economy.

Villages Kahuna 05-03-2022 05:49 AM
I loved Buffett’s simple, clear cut answers to questions which others make more complicated. Charlie Munger was typically even more direct. I agree with both—but I’ve never visited Las Vegas to gamble, which may explain my opinion.

Worldseries27 05-03-2022 06:02 AM
Black thursday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2091248)
it’s a game of musical chairs. If you get in early while the music is still playing it’s all fun, but it’s wise to stop playing early. When the music stops there very well might not be a single chair around.
doesn't smell like teen spirit
more like ponzi

merrymini 05-03-2022 07:09 AM
Bitcoins are worth what investors think they are worth. Some people made money, some people lost their shirts, Bonafide, GAW. Invest if you can tolerate losing it all. Not my cup of tea. There are always people who tell you how rich they have become being rentals property owners, selling real estate themselves, selling their house in two hours, etc. Sometimes true, lots of BS. You only see the worm in the apple when you get up close.

Stu from NYC 05-03-2022 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymini (Post 2091547)
Bitcoins are worth what investors think they are worth. Some people made money, some people lost their shirts, Bonafide, GAW. Invest if you can tolerate losing it all. Not my cup of tea. There are always people who tell you how rich they have become being rentals property owners, selling real estate themselves, selling their house in two hours, etc. Sometimes true, lots of BS. You only see the worm in the apple when you get up close.
For some reason most people will only tell you about their winners never the losers

Petersweeney 05-03-2022 07:26 AM
I’d rather buy something I can put in my driveway or garage…..

Nell57 05-03-2022 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malsua (Post 2091244)
There are a couple things you've got wrong here.

1. Bitcoin transactions are 100% TRACEABLE. All the way back to the first coin. This is what is called an open ledger. If I know your wallet addresses, I can find every movement of every coin, into and out of your wallet for all time. You cannot hide it. It's very easy to see as well as there are large, free websites that will give you all that information.

Transactions can be obfuscated with tools, but what those tools do take large quantities of coins and dump them into a blender, mix them with other stuff and push out small amount. Again, if I know your wallet address, I can watch it all happen, pretty much in real time.

As far as energy usage goes, if it cost $100 to use a bitcoin, the fees would prohibit usage. There are around 500 "transactions" i.e. You bought a cup of coffee, in a block confirmation. Each block may cost around $100 so your cup of coffee cost a 20 cent fee.

There are other crypto currencies that confirm blocks for much less than bitcoin. On the Solana chain for example, block confirmations are in the hundredths of a penny.

Finally, how much do you think traditional finance costs? When you do the actual comparision, bitcoin transactions are a bargain. How much energy does every bank use? It dwarfs bitcoin, around 800 to 1. No building to run, no lights, no AC, no heat, no people driving to it, on and on and on.

If you don't want to use bitcoin or any cryptocurrency, don't.

The Federal Reserve in the process of building their own Fedcoin. I don't know what it will be called, but it's a CBDC(Central Bank Digital currency). Children born today will not understand why you ever had to go to a building somewhere in town to get money. It will all be some form of a Blockchain(which is what Fedcoin will be) and it will all bear some resemblance to bitcoin(in function essentially) except that Fedcoin will be centralized instead of distributed.
You are very knowledgeable and have a great understanding of the Value of cryptocurrency.
We have a TERRIFIC crypto club here in The Villages.
We meet in person the first Wed.of each month 9 am at Water Lily. You are welcome.
We also do smaller group meetings throughout the week.

NoMo50 05-03-2022 07:47 AM
Ever know or talk to a gambler? They can lavish you with details of their big winnings last weekend, but rarely talk about the losing forays. Sure...there are pros who consistently win, but they are very few and very far between. There is a reason the house always wins.

ElDiabloJoe 05-03-2022 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 2091434)
Hey,

Nobody is whining.

No need to be condescending. (Do I see a little ageism between the lines? Well, not exactly between the lines, is it?)

No need to be so upset because some people don’t care about Bitcoin and/or those people are not saying things you want to hear. Can’t find your trophy here?

Btw, even though I am oh so decrepit, I already knew about Fidelity playing to the Bitcoin crowd. That’s called marketing. Fidelity knows some people want to buy Bitcoin, so Fidelity is providing the tools for Bitcoin buyers to use — through Fidelity. That’s all. Fidelity does not actually know whether Bitcoin is going to be “OK” or not. (said Boomer, explaining patiently)

And, just for the record, guess what…….

Ya know that post I wrote earlier in this thread — about my dot-com bubble dancing days. Well, my dot-com funds were all Fidelity funds. But, at least I knew that Fidelity was not telling me dot-com was “OK.” Fidelity was just marketing to the times.

About your future TV house built of Bitcoin? Maybe so. Who knows? But I would lay some real money down on a bet that there are a whole lot of houses in TV built out of dividends, years and years and years of dividends.

Having fun at the Bitcoin Casino is fine, but maybe branch out a little. I was sure glad I had backup when I was putting my 403(b) in dot-com, and oh my, my, at the time, I thought I knew so much, so very much……….

Boomer (Advice 5 Cents)
^This. Concur 100%

Joe C. 05-03-2022 09:45 AM
Bitcoin can be good except if you're the last one holding it. I believe that it's a pyramid scheme that works well for those in the beginning and in the middle....... but not so good for those in the end. And if Bitcoin is so wonderful, how come they take dollars in trade? Because in the end, they'll have the dollars and you'll have nada.

tophcfa 05-03-2022 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanTodd (Post 2091447)
To the OP, what was your motivation in creating this thread? I sense you are frustrated and are lashing out at crypto currency. I can sympathize, your hard earned dollars are diminishing at an advertised rate of 8 to 10% and the true purchasing power lost is likely much higher.

Sounds like you would benefit from coming to a Villages crypto currency club meeting. We actually have one tomorrow morning at the Water Lily rec center from 9am to 11am in person and we also have weekly virtual meetings Saturday mornings. Members of the crypto club can help teach you how to gain that to 8 to 10% back in interest bearing defi accounts.

If anyone in this thread would like more information and would like to have a constructive conversation about bitcoin and other crypto currencies reach out to me at dylanwaynetodd@gmail.com

Cheers,

Dylan
OP here. Lots of false assumptions in the above quoted post. The motivation for starting the thread was to share with fellow Villagers what a very well respected investor had to say about Bitcoin. Your jumping to a lot of conclusions. Just like dogs, golf, pickle-ball, types of music, etc…, everyone has an opinion about the pros and cons of various things. I get that a lot of people have both made and lost lots of $$$ on crypto. People have also made money on snake oil. As a retired investment professional, what bothers me about crypto is that I like to invest in assets that have some intrinsic underlying fundamental value, which crypto doesn’t! What frustrates me about crypto is that many of the smart minds of our society are spending their time, effort, and brain power buying and selling a digital token that adds no value to society. The efficient allocation of capital is a critical element of a productive society. Crypto is consuming valuable capital with no productive benefits. Wouldn’t it be great if those efforts were instead geared toward real investments/businesses that actually provide needed goods and services?

coralway 05-03-2022 10:57 AM
I always listen to what Mr. Buffet says about anything - but, I do my own dd. Other investors whom I also respect, say it is the future.

I have one BTC purchased at $6500.

jimjamuser 05-03-2022 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 2091351)
Tax cheats? The reality is no one wants to pay taxes. Everyone wants stuff, services.
A tax deduction? It is fair if I get it. If, someone else gets a deduction that is cheating.

Reality, there is a line on the tax form where you can pay more tax, if you choose to.

It is interesting. Our constitution is four pages. Our tax code is one hundred and eighty THOUSAND pages.

We know if you tax something you will have less of it. If, you subsidize something you will have more of it. We tax WORK. We tax SAVING. We subsidize POVERTY. We subsidize DEBT.
The US taxes INCOME from employment and from investments (investment income). The purpose of taxes is to give a government (federal, state, or local) the money that it needs to perform the tasks that the residents of that government want to have done and chose to have done by the voters in those governments. An individual may want a new bridge to be built in his city but he is powerless, by himself, to build it. A government can combine taxes paid by MANY
individuals to actually accomplish the building of this bridge - which is known as PROGRESS. Without government, each individual would still be in the Caveman period.
........A government often spends money to increase STABILITY and lawfulness in society. Everyone desires that. But, many complain when a government spends money to try to move individuals out of poverty or spends money on education. These complainers do not realize that they themselves benefit from that spent money because it gives them STABILITY and LAWFULNESS. It takes a government to build a bridge or a road, not just one shortsighted individual.
.......Any government needs tax revenue coming in. They COULD tas by many methods .....income, wealth, property value, number of children, by luck (or unluck ) of a lottery, by age, or by height. It could be any system using ANY variable. Obviously, INCOME is the normal variable of choice.

jimjamuser 05-03-2022 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2091456)
He has not been indicted for tax fraud has he? Whose fault is it that congress can be bought to enable people to pay less taxes. Us foolish voters keep returning the same congressman to office
Actually, if I had my way, they would have term limits.

jimjamuser 05-03-2022 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luggage (Post 2091480)
Bitcoin does provide certain value as far as it being a private currency and it has an ability be used on the internet for micro transactions. This is something Warren Buffett doesn't understand. Also everything can we use for money if other people decide as value. Silver Pieces Of Eight which themselves can only be melted down for jewelry used to be used as well as large Stones cut into Wheels. We also use little pieces of plastic all credit cards which themselves are backed by little green pieces of paper are you put in your bank or by so cold faith of credit at your bank decides you are worth so in reality it is all game of faith
Good post, I agree. And civilization itself could come apart by wars or diseases. At which time people would go back to barter as in, "I will give you 2 fish for 1 rabbit".


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