Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Investment Talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/investment-talk-158/)
-   -   Are We being Forced into paying with Cash (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/investment-talk-158/we-being-forced-into-paying-cash-359985/)

Velvet 07-16-2025 03:25 PM
I don’t do autopay pretty well ever… a similar thing happened to me, my gym was located next to my bank (literally). The gym charged my annual membership fee 4 times in 3 months. No matter how often I asked, I could not get the gym owner to refund it. However, he worked out in the gym. One time when it was crowded and he was there I yelled across the crowded gym floor, “Hey, Max, when am I getting back the three annual membership payments that were “accidentally ” charged to my account?” I got the money back the next time I came in.

nn0wheremann 07-18-2025 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2445614)
Hmmm, I see it the other way. I want to pay for many things with cash and am being forced to pay using other methods. Cash is king, and it’s not subject to digital theft.
Digital theft does not hurt or injure as seriously as strongarm theft. Cash presents for merchants the issue of shrinkage, and is subject to handling fees at banks. Just as checks have been disappearing from day to day commerce for years, so also will cash.

ThirdOfFive 07-18-2025 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2446089)
CBDC is coming. It's a matter of when, not if.
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

So saith the U.S. Government.

So you go to pay your bill/copay/whatever, and plunk down a $50 and change. Exact amount of the bill. But--the person/place you're paying doesn't accept cash, only credit or debit cards. You have neither (as far as I know, there is no law requiring you to have the plastic). So...

can a merchant or business legally refuse your payment if cash is all you have, even though the government guarantees that the cash is legal tender?

retiredguy123 07-18-2025 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2446616)
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

So saith the U.S. Government.

So you go to pay your bill/copay/whatever, and plunk down a $50 and change. Exact amount of the bill. But--the person/place you're paying doesn't accept cash, only credit or debit cards. You have neither (as far as I know, there is no law requiring you to have the plastic). So...

can a merchant or business legally refuse your payment if cash is all you have, even though the government guarantees that the cash is legal tender?
Yes they can, according to the Federal Government. As I understand it, when you buy something from a retailer, it is not a DEBT.

Pugchief 07-18-2025 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2446616)
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

So saith the U.S. Government.

So you go to pay your bill/copay/whatever, and plunk down a $50 and change. Exact amount of the bill. But--the person/place you're paying doesn't accept cash, only credit or debit cards. You have neither (as far as I know, there is no law requiring you to have the plastic). So...

can a merchant or business legally refuse your payment if cash is all you have, even though the government guarantees that the cash is legal tender?
If the US govt says they will only accept payment of federal taxes in CBDC, what choice do you have? If the business you reference above is required to use CBDC to conduct their business with state and federal taxing bodies who no longer accept cash or cash equivalents, they will not accept any other form of payment.

Now, some black market transactional medium may arise, like it did during the Soviet era, but it's not going to be the USD cash.

Michael G. 07-18-2025 02:45 PM
I could never buy in to the thought of "Don't use a credit card because you'll overspend."
With a little common sense, wouldn't you know if you overspent? DUH!

retiredguy123 07-18-2025 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael G. (Post 2446686)
I could never buy in to the thought of "Don't use a credit card because you'll overspend."
With a little common sense, wouldn't you know if you overspent? DUH!
A lot of people don't have any common sense.

Kelevision 07-19-2025 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael G. (Post 2445490)
It’s the credit card companies, not the business who charge the fees. The businesses, mostly small privately owned businesses, lose quite a bit of money in credit card fees, which is why they charge the customers. Call your bank and complain. Don’t take it out on the small business owner. I believe debit cards are free of fees at least.

rsmurano 07-19-2025 07:36 AM
I never pay with cash unless I get a discount. I was writing out a $30k check for our lanai work and the salesman told me they would take a cc too with no fees, I tore up the check and gave them my wife’s Starbucks cc and she got 4 free drinks a week for a year for free. Never carry a balance on the cc’s. I use a cc to buy a .80 cent drink at Walmart.
For using cc’s, you know how many free cruises we have been on?

Pugchief 07-19-2025 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelevision (Post 2446793)
It’s the credit card companies, not the business who charge the fees. The businesses, mostly small privately owned businesses, lose quite a bit of money in credit card fees, which is why they charge the customers. Call your bank and complain. Don’t take it out on the small business owner. I believe debit cards are free of fees at least.
Most small businesses are paying in the neighborhood of 3.5% + per item fee + monthly fee + extra fees for rewards cards. Debit cards (PIN based, not signature which is processed like a credit card) is typically a flat fee (maybe 50 cents) regardless of the sale amount.

While I am generally opposed to any government involvement in the private market, with the volume of CC sales these days, some major reform would go a long way toward improving the economy. There is no reason to have the insane amount of fees, variability in transaction costs, and high percentages charged.

retiredguy123 07-19-2025 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2446963)
Most small businesses are paying in the neighborhood of 3.5% + per item fee + monthly fee + extra fees for rewards cards. Debit cards (PIN based, not signature which is processed like a credit card) is typically a flat fee (maybe 50 cents) regardless of the sale amount.

While I am generally opposed to any government involvement in the private market, with the volume of CC sales these days, some major reform would go a long way toward improving the economy. There is no reason to have the insane amount of fees, variability in transaction costs, and high percentages charged.
Personally, I think that most small businesses could not survive without credit card sales. They are free to require customers to pay cash or to pay a fee to use a credit card, but most do not because they would lose sales. The banks are providing a convenient means for customers to pay with a credit card and the merchants benefit in increased sales and guaranteed receipt of their money. The banks make most of their money from high interest payments made by customers who cannot manage their cash flow. For the banks and the merchants, it is a win-win situation. More Government regulation of credit card fees would hurt both banks and merchants. My opinion.

MrChip72 07-19-2025 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2445614)
Hmmm, I see it the other way. I want to pay for many things with cash and am being forced to pay using other methods. Cash is king, and it’s not subject to digital theft.
Cash hasn't been king in a LONG time.

Physical theft is much more likely to happen than digital theft. Your money is almost infinitely safer in a bank than under your mattress or in your wallet.

Last year I was selling a large item for around $2000 at a yard sale I had two interested buyers. One walked up offering $200 less saying "cash is king", the other guy offered to e-transfer me the exact same amount that the other guy offered. I sold it to the guy that saved me an extra trip to the bank.

Credit cards are better anyways if you get rewards. I've been on countless flights and cruises for free just for using credit cards for most things even though I always pay off the balance.

Pugchief 07-19-2025 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2446971)
Personally, I think that most small businesses could not survive without credit card sales. They are free to require customers to pay cash or to pay a fee to use a credit card, but most do not because they would lose sales.
Agree with both statements.


Quote:
The banks are providing a convenient means for customers to pay with a credit card and the merchants benefit in increased sales and guaranteed receipt of their money.
Agree. And the banks are certainly entitled to compensation for that convenience. Just not at the ridiculous margins they are currently enjoying. IMO and prob also that of every other small business owner.


Quote:
The banks make most of their money from high interest payments made by customers who cannot manage their cash flow.
Prob also true, but they're also making a boatload of money on merchant fees. I don't feel sorry for them.

Quote:
More Government regulation of credit card fees would hurt both banks and merchants. My opinion.
It may hurt banks' profit margins (boo-hoo), but I disagree that it would hurt merchants. Merchants would welcome a reduction in the cost to process CCs. And why should the merchant pay more to process a rewards card that the bank decided to issue to the consumer? If the bank wants to do that, the bank should eat the cost, not the merchant.

justjim 07-19-2025 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar (Post 2445711)
Why would I not use a credit card? You're protected from wrong charges by the CC company.
I get 5% credit for gas purchases at Costco, 4% for gas purchases at other gas stations, 3% on restaurants using by Costco simple card, 2% on all other purchases using one of many cards.
I get 2% back paying my insurance bills using a credit card. Discover every quarter has a 5% reward on revolving categories. Some cards offer a bonus of hundreds for using a new card.

I get the use my money for a longer time. As opposed to many debit charges on my bank statements I just have a few payments to the credit card companies.

Because I use my cards for business and pleasure I get back more than a $1,500 a year in rebates.

So let somebody get my number. One call and I get credit for these charges and a new card sent to me.

To each their own.
I couldn’t say it any better myself. Using a credit card (Discover) or another just makes financial sense.

justjim 07-19-2025 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelevision (Post 2446793)
It’s the credit card companies, not the business who charge the fees. The businesses, mostly small privately owned businesses, lose quite a bit of money in credit card fees, which is why they charge the customers. Call your bank and complain. Don’t take it out on the small business owner. I believe debit cards are free of fees at least.
Small business get robbed too because they have cash. I never use a debit card because if the card gets “hacked” they can clean out your bank account.


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