[TheTourVan]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Apparently, 1/2 million disagree with you. Again, you don't feel it is affordable, Okay, that is your opinion, my statement still stands. Prior to Tesla EV sold in the hundreds, or if lucky thousands. Now it is one of the fastest-selling cars around the world. I think Y's are sold out for this year. They are THE highest selling cars in several countries. So, again, all those buyers seem to disagree with you. That is all I said.

Yup, Apple is and always has been a premium phone and computer. Somehow they still manage to be in the running (top 1 or 2) highest valued companies in the world. And I think they sell more cell phones than any other single company. (That could have changed recently... I am not sure, but they are at least one of the highest selling). So, there are a few million people that think they are affordable.

You don't have to agree, it is fine to disagree. But, a lot of people agree with me.

I think people are confusing wants with affordable. Its okay to want a luxury car, I have two of them. If iPhone is Premium and not called affordable, its impossible to do the same with Tesla. Affordability has to have some sort of scale and if you are more expensive than nearly every comparable, its hard to swallow that label, whether people spend it or not.

And no, Apple doesnt sell the most cell phones. Samsung does...Why? Because of their affordable options. Their premium models pale in sales to that of the iPhone.

I don't like or dislike Musk, but his price manipulation in the segment is disgusting

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by TheTourVan

I think people are confusing wants with affordable. Its okay to want a luxury car, I have two of them. If iPhone is Premium and not called affordable, its impossible to do the same with Tesla. Affordability has to have some sort of scale and if you are more expensive than nearly every comparable, its hard to swallow that label, whether people spend it or not.

And no, Apple doesnt sell the most cell phones. Samsung does...Why? Because of their affordable options. Their premium models pale in sales to that of the iPhone.

I don't like or dislike Musk, but his price manipulation in the segment is disgusting

I believe the definition of affordable is that there is something someone wants that they can pay for.


You opinion of affordable has no bearing on what I can or can't afford.

You are sort of correct, Samsung has led Apple by a few percentage points most quarters. 2020Q4 Apple led sales by Samsung by 5 points. Samsung has a larger percentage of active users. But, Samsung has 994 million and Apple has 900 million. I will take that as supporting my position that Apple iPhones ARE affordable. About a bill of them.

If you were correct, the I would expect Samsung to have a much larger lead in active users.

And finally, Tesla is in business to make money , I am not sure what you mean by market manipulation, but they have not been charged with any crimes. If you don't like their pricing policies, please don't buy one. That way I will get mine sooner.

[TheTourVan]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I believe the definition of affordable is that there is something someone wants that they can pay for.


You opinion of affordable has no bearing on what I can or can't afford.

You are sort of correct, Samsung has led Apple by a few percentage points most quarters. 2020Q4 Apple led sales by Samsung by 5 points. Samsung has a larger percentage of active users. But, Samsung has 994 million and Apple has 900 million. I will take that as supporting my position that Apple iPhones ARE affordable. About a bill of them.

If you were correct, the I would expect Samsung to have a much larger lead in active users.

And finally, Tesla is in business to make money , I am not sure what you mean by market manipulation, but they have not been charged with any crimes. If you don't like their pricing policies, please don't buy one. That way I will get mine sooner.

Haha at sort of correct. You said Apple sells the most phones, and my response pointed out that was incorrect.

And I said nothing about Tesla and manipulation. I said Musk...
I have nothing negative to say about the brand, other than the idea that a 50k car is considered affordable is laughable by the current market pricing standards of vehicles.

But I get it, you are a last word guy...So on that note Cya.

[Blackbird45]

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

[Villages Kahuna]

Z-z-z-z

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by biker1

Electrics actually have less fires per mile driven than gas cars but the fires, when they do occur, are more difficult to put out. GM has a recall on their Bolt electric.

The Tesla accidents that have occurred with Autopilot engaged have been due to the driver failing to pay attention. Autopilot requires that you keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. It is not fully autonomous driving, it is not promoted as fully autonomous driving, and drivers must still be ready to take control of the car at any time. Accidents have occurred when drivers misused the system. That is not Tesla's fault.

Mmmm, maybe rhey aren’t driven that many miles.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

Isn’t all electric cars cheaper than Tesla. Status, people with money want to show it. For those price is driving factor not function.

[Two Bills]

At our local supermarket electric car charging station today, was a Jag, a Merc and a first for me to see in UK, a Mustang.
All SUV's.
Not a Tesla in sight, although there are two owners in our village with them.
Electric is getting very popular, and with gas at about £6.45 ($4.75) a gallon, they are going to get even more popular.
340 miles on a full charge, is pretty well anywhere and back in UK!

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Luggage

Over 1 million Nissan Leaf have been sold and they're coming out with a new model this year. The arriya. Hardly a bad car

Yet, most new car owners don’t keep car pass three years. Even Yugo’s lasted 3 years. Well, 2 years and 11 months maybe.

[DaleDivine]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCat

Elon Musk is a criminal. He’s polluting space with 47,000 pieces of future space junk that cannot be retrieved. He’s a space polluter and someone should stop him. .

And yet no one is giving up their cell phones or computers that bounce off those satellites. DUHHH...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by TheTourVan

Haha at sort of correct. You said Apple sells the most phones, and my response pointed out that was incorrect.

And I said nothing about Tesla and manipulation. I said Musk...
I have nothing negative to say about the brand, other than the idea that a 50k car is considered affordable is laughable by the current market pricing standards of vehicles.

But I get it, you are a last word guy...So on that note Cya.

But, I get it you are a last work guy, so on that note Cya.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

I expect sooner. All the other car makes are jumping on the EV band wagon now that he proved it can be done.

And I hear he is working on a Model 2 that will be a much lower price model.

Sort of related, on how new things come to market. Not that long ago (a few decades?), I remember seeing one of the first flat screen TVs. It was displayed in a big box electronics store, and was $16,000 for a 18 or 20 inch screen. Someone has to get the ball rolling. And those first balls tend to be expensive.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Isn’t all electric cars cheaper than Tesla. Status, people with money want to show it. For those price is driving factor not function.

Hmm, I think I just saw a hybrid at $1.5 Million. But, Tesla is the leader right now, all the others are trying to find their place in the pecking order. In a couple years we will actually have choice again.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Mmmm, maybe rhey aren’t driven that many miles.

In November 2018, after 4 years of Autopilot, Tesla owners reached the first billion miles driven with Autopilot activated.

Less than two years later, 2020, Tesla’s fleet added 2 billion more miles for a total of 3 billion miles on Autopilot. It is expected to reach 4 billion miles ON AUTOPILOT this year.

NOt a bad beta test

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, and I believe Musk has plans in place to begin cleaning up debris in space.

He was told you can't make a practical affordable EV car - he did.
He was told you can's reuse rocket boosters - he did
He was told you can't make a Satellite Internet service - he did
He was told you can't make house solar tiles practical - he did
He was told you can't drill tunnels faster - he did
He was told you can't use batteries for storing solar and wind power cost effectively - he did
He was told you can't create a Full Self Driving without LIDAR - he did
He was told you can't colonize Mars - he is working on it.

The list just keeps growing.

People should be VERY careful where they get their news.

Boeing financed a website to spread misinformation on SpaceX - because Boeing can't deliver and is in jeopardy of loosing they're decades old funding and more funding.

Various ICE engine companies were involved in paying a person in Australia to spread misinformation about Teslas.

There is a large group of Short'ers that spears negative news in an attempt to bring down Tesla's stock so they can profit.

It goes on and one.

I am amazed at many of the same people that constantly dis china and the whole loosing jobs and factories to China, then turn around and bash one of the most innovative and creative Americans.

I am sincerely trying to be helpful. I believe that "losing" is spelled with one O. Loosing with two Os has something to do with arrows sent from bows. Sincerely and with respect.....me