Talk of The Villages Florida - If Washington "Redskins" name insults Indians

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)

- Just For Fun (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/just-fun-109/)

- - If Washington "Redskins" name insults Indians (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/just-fun-109/if-washington-redskins-name-insults-indians-92918/)

I started out to make a simple joke comparing the use of the word redskins to red sox to make the point that identifying some thing, anything by a word that describes its color is impossible to be denigrating unless there is such an intent.

When the team name was changed to Redskins it did so with the intent of honoring their coach and several of their players who were native american indians. Now because the media tells us that the term is racist, we have been instructed to toss aside our long-held beliefs and apologize for being racist.

This is no different than the media now telling us that it is wrong to consider ourselves a christian nation and that doing so offends non-christians and atheists.

To me, most of non-native americans, and most american indians the use of the word Redskins to name a team of sporting warriors is an honorable one. (a 2004 survey of indians showed that 90% were not offended by the name Redskins) and I am not going to be directed by politically correct social engineers to feel otherwise particularly when I am convinced there is, and never was, a racist intent.

I congratulate those that use racist terms "but have no racist intent". That is certainly the right attitude but, does not negate the effect the offensive words have on the feelings of those that it hurts.

I tryed to quote your post Indy by it wouldn't let me. Our media trys to be good at placing intent and malice where it didn't exist to begin with. Unfortunately there are those that just accepts what they are told and blindly comply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingnut (Post 770467)

The point is that absent the "intent to espouse that a given race is inferior" there is NO racism. There are words that are purely derogative without dispute. Then there are words that a minority have chosen to label as racist without regard for the actual use in context. The mere acknowledgement of the difference in color of a person's skin is not racist. If you believe and promote such a belief that that color difference proves an inferiority, then THAT is racism.

I have had many a conversation with my black brother-in-law as well as my hispanic son-in-law about the perceived racism in this country. They agree that most people who cry "racism" are simply attempting to profit in some fashion from the politicization thereof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker (Post 770511)

I hate to use Wikipedia, unless of course it fits my needs. But this
seems to be a reasonable statement:

Origin and Meaning[edit]

The origin of the word "redskin" is debated. Some scholars say that the word was coined by early settlers in reference to the skin tone of Native Americans. Smithsonian Institution senior linguist and curator emeritus Ives Goddard asserts that the actual origin of the word is benign and reflects more positive aspects of early relations between Native Americans and whites. It emerged at a specific time in history among a small group of men linked by joint activities that provided the context that brought it forth.[3] That context was the need for a term that all could use in negotiating treaties during the late 18th and early 19th centuries.[4] It is later that the term became more pejorative. A linguistic analysis of books published between 1875 and 1930 show an increasingly negative context in the use of redskin, often in association with "dirty", "lying", etc.; while benign or positive usage such as "noble" redskin were used in a condescending manner.[5] The term continued in common use until the 1960s, as evidenced in Western movies, but is now largely considered a pejorative and is seldom used publicly aside from football teams. As with any term perceived to be discriminatory, different individuals may hold differing opinions of the term's appropriateness.[6

My bolding. Reference #5 refers to an analysis of how the word Redskin was used IN CONTEXT from 1875 to 1930 and it clearly was often used as a slur. I seriously doubt that either you or Mr. Snyder would greet a group of Native Americans using the term "redskin". Now if you want to talk potatoes....

I also note you have come into the 21st century in choosing to refer to your black and hispanic relatives with non-offensive terms. I'll bet that 50 years ago you would have used neither of those terms. Proving that language, even yours, changes to not give offense even if your inner feelings would have not meant to give offense had you chosen whatever term might have been ok 50 yrs ago.

Now this woman has a point.

Why I Refuse to Care About the Redskins Name Controversy | Andi Sligh

I do not remember ever hearing the word Redskin outside of football as this writer also asserts. We had various Native Americans from the Paiute tribe while I was in Junior High and High School and they were often the coolest people in the schools. Or, at least, they had that reputation.

I believe that you should ask Native Americans what they think of the term Redskin. http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/s...ntroversy.html

I can only speak to the name REDSKIN. To me it is very racist. If it is not to you, not sure why it would not be, but thank you for being fair and balanced to all. So, then what about my father in law who used in N WORD constantly yet swore to GOD that he was not a racist. My concern is, that maybe he was not, but, I could not embrace the concept. Help me understand this thought process. I truly wish to understand this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingnut (Post 770552)

Maybe it is because in my lifetime I never heard the name redskin used in a deriding manner.

Using the Nword is generally accepted as only derogatory.

You, personally, may have a reason to consider the word redskin as being racist, but, as recent as 2004, most native americans and 89% of the rest of the population were polled as saying that they did not believe that the word was in and of itself "racist".

That does not mean you are wrong and that does not mean all of the others are wrong. It just is a difference of opinion which does nothing to support a perception that the word redskin is a slur.

In fact, the redskin warriors fought against tremendous odds to protect their lands from an invading force. They were, and are, exceedingly brave, god-fearing people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker (Post 770570)

I totally agree, just find it interesting how we, of otherwise similar backgrounds see it differently. I immediately see some words as racist, yet my friends and family do not. I have been called a racist because of my views about Muslims. I see them all as ignorant killers. So, I would like to see a formula to identity a racist properly. I love people of all colors, but have major fear of religious extremists of all the planets various faiths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 770082)

I don't understand why it seems difficult for some people to grasp that the continuing use of the nickname Redskin may offend people who, amazingly, aren't on the team. Even if only some Native Americans object there is no reason for a professional or college or high school.. team to offer offense to anyone when it can easily be avoided. To even suggest that the name Redskins has nothing to do with the larger question of anti-Native American racism and this nation's ugly history is amazing.

At least one can argue that the names Cleveland Indians or Atlanta Braves are somewhat neutral or positive. One cannot however suggest the cartoonish Chief Wahoo is in any way something other than a demeaning stereotype.. feather in his hair, big boney nose, eyes that never look straight ahead. It is no different than depicting a black man as a caricature of a shuffling Step 'n Fetchit.

Unless you are a member of a group which has been victimized by the group in power it may be difficult to understand and sympathize with those who simply ask that words that don't convey messages of pain and degradation be substituted for those that do. I fail to see how hurting peoples' feelings and using epithets is an appropriate topic for the humor page.

I agree with you 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingnut (Post 770574)

It is hard to embrace people that say they want you dead. Likewise, it is hard to want to understand their viewpoint when they enslave and mutilate women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker (Post 770581)

It is hard to embrace people that say they want you dead. Likewise, it is hard to want to understand their viewpoint when they enslave and mutilate women.

Bingo Indy. I may very well be to liberal minded, but I believe liberal is better than saying up yours hippie. My feelings have gone from the Iowa good ole boy I was raised as to the now father of two daughters and two granddaughters more gentle and thinking that, of course, females should have equal value in life. If we have the opportunity, we should lean toward equal inclusion when it comes to sex, race and social standing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 770308)

You're assuming all 3 million are offended. If so, I'd say you may have a point. But I seriously doubt they are. My guess (and I don't have any facts to base this on) is that a very small percentage are.

I would guess that a very small percentage would follow the NFL. I'd bet they also would be pulling for the Redskins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimpy (Post 770631)

I would guess that a very small percentage would follow the NFL. I'd bet they also would be pulling for the Redskins.

Being kind and considerate should be a decision based on right and nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingnut (Post 770649)

Being kind and considerate should be a decision based on right and nothing else.

Then all we have to do is come up with a definition of "right" as it applies to the this discussion.