[Velvet]

This thread is so fun!

I love how we, humans, with our tiny minds try to explain and understand what really is beyond us. At least, we try....

[600th Photo Sq]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Quantum Kemo Sabe?

My 6' apart greeting right hand up palm facing you " How " .

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I know quantum mechanics is the latest way to explain all the great mysteries of the universe , but I got a problem with that...

Since I don't believe in the multiverse, nonlocality, or determinism, how am I supposed to buy into quantum mechanics?!?

Any of you quantum physicists out there agree with me?

Well, first off, I'm an engineer who loves to read about modern physics, so I am NOT an expert, but I have a rudimentary knowledge of these things. It just so happens that I am wearing a t-shirt that essentially says Schroedinger's cat (a thought experiment) is AdLeIaVdE (the caps say alive and the lower case says dead to imply that the cat is alive and dead at the same time.

QM does not include gravity, so it doesn't explain "all the great mysteries." String theory was developed largely to merge gravity with the other forces all into one framework. To do so requires adding a bunch of extra dimensions. Some argue that these extra dimensions are "rolled up" so tightly that we don't notice them. Imagine a person walking on a tightrope. To her, the rope seems one dimensional; she can go only forward and backward. But, to an ant walking on that tightrope it is two dimensional. Like the person, the ant can go forward and backward, but it can also go around the rope at any point along its length. This is an example of a tightly rolled dimension. It's only noticeable on a scale much smaller than we can perceive.

If you don't believe in a multiverse, then I guess maybe you ascribe to the Copenhagen Convention, which many of the earlier theoreticians came up with about 100 years ago (Schroedinger was one of them). Their opinion was that a QM experiment can be in multiple states UNTIL a human being measures it, like the cat. That then collapses Schroedinger's wave function to yield just one result. I personally find that to be a bit strange and think the idea of a "Quantum Multiverse" to be a little less bizarre. That's the one (I've read about nine different kinds of multiverses) that says whenever a quantum event or experiment happens, ALL the possible results happen, but each different result creates a different universe. Copies of the experimenter end up in each one to read a different result.

Experiments have shown that QM accurately predicts the results of virtually every experiment happening in the incredible tiny quantum domain to a very high resolution. It is very well tested. QM predicted the Higg's Boson decades before they built the LHC to look for and find it. Such a thing gives physicists lot of warm fuzzies. That's why it is considered a full-fledged theory instead of a hypotheses, which is an untested speculation or a what if. So, if you can't believe in action at a distance, then you are refusing to believe a well-tested theory. Back in the day, it was inconceivable that one could talk to another person who was on the other side of the world in real time. That's because they knew nothing about electricity or radio. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law states that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It does seem rather magical, doesn't it?

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I love how we, humans, with our tiny minds try to explain and understand what really is beyond us. At least, we try....

What makes you so certain it is beyond us?

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by sail33or

Well, just for fun, mankind has no idea what "gravity" is. They just gave this mysterious force a name with some observational measurements.

We think we know what an atom is but can't explain protons. They are suppose to repel each other (same charge) but it actually takes an atomic explosion to break them apart.

Know one knows what light is or why it travels exactly the same speed. What even makes it travel/move in the first place.

Electricity can only be explained with "IMAGINARY" numbers that do not exist. (Square root of negative one)

I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong on every single one of your points. You are expressing personal opinions--not facts.

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by MacScuba

The laws of physics, like regular laws, must be obeyed, regardless of your approval, awareness, or understanding.

Didn't you mean to say "unlike regular (human) laws.

Remember the day when the Reagan (I think) was pushing the 55 mph speed limit? They had a saying: "55 MPH--it's not just a good idea--it's the law." I saw bumper sticker then that said "186,000 miles per second. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!" :-)

[Velvet]

...

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Windguy

...I'm an engineer who loves to read about modern physics, so I am NOT an expert, but I have a rudimentary knowledge of these things...

Heheh...the first part of your post describes me just as much as it does you. (I will not include the remainder of your post just in the interest of space.) That having been said...

Gravity is not a major part of QM, but is often included in the discussion. After all, many believe (as I do) that you cannot discuss some of the laws that govern the universe to the total exclusion of others.

And as far as the Copenhagen Convention is concerned, it ascribes to much of what I said in my original post that I do not believe in. It's not just the multiverse, but also nonlocality and determinism that I have a problem with.

You should read the book I referenced earlier (see below) which details how many well-respected scientists do not accept as fact what many other scientists do with respect to QM. We have harnessed a lot of knowledge of QM to advance our technology. But we are far from having a proven understanding of all things quantum. So as far as "refusing to believe a well-tested theory"...that is very true to a degree. I will accept it as fact when it proven, not just well tested. That has not yet happened and is not likely any time soon.

The book describes this in great detail...

Book: Through Two Doors at Once
Through Two Doors at Once by Anil Ananthaswamy

[sail33or]

Someone said that "the fact" that we do not know what gravity is was just my opinion. So therefore he must know what gravity is or knows someone that does. Fantastic. Tell me.

The issue of will our brains ever be able to understand the universe can be illustrated by the impossibility of explaining how something "ALWAYS WAS". I can kinda understand how the universe can last forever but I sure can't fathom "ALWAYS WAS".

[600th Photo Sq]

Originally Posted by Windguy

Well, first off, I'm an engineer who loves to read about modern physics, so I am NOT an expert, but I have a rudimentary knowledge of these things. It just so happens that I am wearing a t-shirt that essentially says Schroedinger's cat (a thought experiment) is AdLeIaVdE (the caps say alive and the lower case says dead to imply that the cat is alive and dead at the same time.

QM does not include gravity, so it doesn't explain "all the great mysteries." String theory was developed largely to merge gravity with the other forces all into one framework. To do so requires adding a bunch of extra dimensions. Some argue that these extra dimensions are "rolled up" so tightly that we don't notice them. Imagine a person walking on a tightrope. To her, the rope seems one dimensional; she can go only forward and backward. But, to an ant walking on that tightrope it is two dimensional. Like the person, the ant can go forward and backward, but it can also go around the rope at any point along its length. This is an example of a tightly rolled dimension. It's only noticeable on a scale much smaller than we can perceive.

If you don't believe in a multiverse, then I guess maybe you ascribe to the Copenhagen Convention, which many of the earlier theoreticians came up with about 100 years ago (Schroedinger was one of them). Their opinion was that a QM experiment can be in multiple states UNTIL a human being measures it, like the cat. That then collapses Schroedinger's wave function to yield just one result. I personally find that to be a bit strange and think the idea of a "Quantum Multiverse" to be a little less bizarre. That's the one (I've read about nine different kinds of multiverses) that says whenever a quantum event or experiment happens, ALL the possible results happen, but each different result creates a different universe. Copies of the experimenter end up in each one to read a different result.

Experiments have shown that QM accurately predicts the results of virtually every experiment happening in the incredible tiny quantum domain to a very high resolution. It is very well tested. QM predicted the Higg's Boson decades before they built the LHC to look for and find it. Such a thing gives physicists lot of warm fuzzies. That's why it is considered a full-fledged theory instead of a hypotheses, which is an untested speculation or a what if. So, if you can't believe in action at a distance, then you are refusing to believe a well-tested theory. Back in the day, it was inconceivable that one could talk to another person who was on the other side of the world in real time. That's because they knew nothing about electricity or radio. Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law states that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It does seem rather magical, doesn't it?

For me watching " Twilight Zone " the Black & White version is really fantastic along with my 6 pack of Michelob Ultra, and snacks. Feet up. Munching. Relaxed.

Gene Rodenberry was amazing. Not totally sure which planet he came from really who cares, I enjoyed The Twilight Zone. Hi Gene where ever you are .

My guess traveling .

[LiverpoolWalrus]

This is what I love about this board!

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by sail33or

Someone said that "the fact" that we do not know what gravity is was just my opinion. So therefore he must know what gravity is or knows someone that does. Fantastic. Tell me.

Gravity is a warping of space/time caused by the presence of mass. Basic General Relativity.

[sail33or]

Originally Posted by Windguy

Gravity is a warping of space/time caused by the presence of mass. Basic General Relativity.

Googled gravity, did we. Where did "mass" come from? Don't say Big Bang. Just theory. Don't say, "Always Existed" because how can something have always existed. At least we can't grasp that. But perhaps you could google "infinite", etc.

So you believe in Time Travel, I mean warping of space/time...……….just slingshot by a Blackhole, right.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by sail33or

Googled gravity, did we. Where did "mass" come from? Don't say Big Bang. Just theory...

You’re right. Just theory. Problem is...

It’s all just theory. Some with more scientific backing and data. But still just theory. So if you want to just discard theories out-of-hand with no discussion, we’re left with nothing to talk about.

So, to just toss a subject out there...

Is light made up of particles? Waves? Both? Neither? Theories welcome.