Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Landscape Talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/landscape-talk-129/)
-   -   3 Palms that are NOT for this zone. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/landscape-talk-129/3-palms-not-zone-336635/)

Bonanza 11-13-2022 02:48 PM
Not So!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna (Post 2157267)
Add Queen Palms. They will be badly damaged by one or two days of sun-freezing temperatures, maybe killed. If damaged, they’ll look terrible for a couple of years.

Do you want to know what palms to plant? Plant what the Developer plants. They employ experts to choose tree and plant varieties which require less maintenance, less water, and are weather tolerant for this area. Plant varieties that you like or those “peddled” by local stores or nurseries at your own risk.
Sorry, Kahuna, but I feel the need to correct you.

The developer does NOT employ "experts" to choose Villages' landscaping. He employs companies who will do the job cheaply! Case in point . . . look at all the Queen palms all over the place. Notice I mentioned that earlier in this thread (see Item #4). They are a no-no here!

In many villages, they planted the wrong grass because it was cheaper, not better, and now they have gone back to St. Augustine grass. I could go on, but won't.

Normal 11-14-2022 05:56 AM
Robellini Palms
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondering (Post 2157264)
Roebelenii palm is another. Tampa and south is the zone.
Respectfully, Robellini palms are fine for the Villages area. Sumter county is in Zone 9a and 9b. Marion and Lake counties encompass a little more of the 9a zone, but are still listed as part of the planting zone for the species.
State Maps of USDA Plant Hardiness Zones. Below freezing temperatures can burn the fronds, but the tree should come back if this happens. The palm is suggested for zones 9-11.

midiwiz 11-14-2022 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzello (Post 2156752)
Areca, Foxtail and Christmas palms ... NOT for this area, and are becoming commonly planted. (Add Norfolk Island Pine to this list as well)

If you do the research (or remember the past) you will see these palms are DAMAGED most winters here. Damaged is not just a little brown from frost, it hits the center bud (heart) of the tree and takes more than a season for recovery... or kills the tree. on a 10 year freeze cycle, they are all DEAD. Horticulture is a SCIENCE, and doesn't change because some uneducated landscape designer wants to convince you they are better than other designers because they will plant these beautiful palms.. and give you a warrantee that EXCLUDES FREEZING (Acts of God) Find a designer with ANY college in FLORIDA horticulture, landscape design, or FL agriculture and you hang on to that unicorn.

These palms are beautiful, yes. But go find a healthy 20-year-old specimen of any of these (recently planted doesn't count) and I will remove this post and apologize for the following statement:

Any landscaper encouraging use of these palms in your landscape, either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is just plain greedy beyond any sort of integrity.

Rant is over, but if you already planted one of these palms, good luck this year. The acorns are dropping REALLY heavy. No that isn't science from a book, but sometimes the old-timers around here were on to something.
No idea why you felt this needed this rant....however, it lacks all depth of understanding. TV covers 3 counties, and those areas are split between zones. For example my house is all of 1 block from the warmer zone. My foxtails are absolutely fine and having zero issues as we find the other ones heavy maintenance and quite frankly a royal pain in the ***. We have had palms at our other houses and have watched all of these varieties... they all differ in care and ability to handle the environment.

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean you need to rant on everyone else's wishes, or are you the guy that's always flipping me off in the roundabouts???

maybe when TV gets off their behind and trims these palms with "skirts" the way they should be, then you can rant.... until then blah

Bonanza 11-14-2022 01:50 PM
You're WAY Off Base!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midiwiz (Post 2157456)
No idea why you felt this needed this rant....however, it lacks all depth of understanding. TV covers 3 counties, and those areas are split between zones. For example my house is all of 1 block from the warmer zone. My foxtails are absolutely fine and having zero issues as we find the other ones heavy maintenance and quite frankly a royal pain in the ***. We have had palms at our other houses and have watched all of these varieties... they all differ in care and ability to handle the environment.

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean you need to rant on everyone else's wishes, or are you the guy that's always flipping me off in the roundabouts???

maybe when TV gets off their behind and trims these palms with "skirts" the way they should be, then you can rant.... until then blah
No idea why you felt the need for your rant; yours is definitely unjustified. Ozello is pretty much right on the money when he makes a botanical comment, unlike what you are spewing. The care of different varieties of palms does NOT differ that much in the care they all require, if at all.

You are way off regarding the palm skirts to which you refer. They are Washingtonia palms and they are supposed to have skirts and NOT be trimmed. So much for your palm knowledge credentials!

N. B. Did you ever consider that perhaps you deserve to be flipped??!?

Whitley 11-14-2022 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 2157550)
No idea why you felt the need for your rant; yours is definitely unjustified. Ozello is pretty much right on the money when he makes a botanical comment, unlike what you are spewing. The care of different varieties of palms does NOT differ that much in the care they all require, if at all.

You are way off regarding the palm skirts to which you refer. They are Washingtonia palms and they are supposed to have skirts and NOT be trimmed. So much for your palm knowledge credentials!

N. B. Did you ever consider that perhaps you deserve to be flipped??!?
Politics, dogs, and now we can add palms.

Davonu 11-14-2022 06:29 PM
It’s amazing the topics that can lead to such arrogant, antagonistic, condescending posts in this forum.

This thread raises the bar. Palm trees for crying out loud.

Bonanza 11-15-2022 12:08 AM
You Forgot One.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitley (Post 2157575)
Politics, dogs, and now we can add palms.
Whitley . . . How could you not add the circles, a/k/a roundabouts, to your list??!?

Love2Swim 11-15-2022 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 2157647)
Whitley . . . How could you not add the circles, a/k/a roundabouts, to your list??!?
The comment about skirts is correct. I was reading that over-pruning can actually kill the tree.

Bay Kid 11-15-2022 07:46 AM
I love palms, in other peoples yards. They are beautiful.

Ozzello 11-15-2022 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by midiwiz (Post 2157456)
No idea why you felt this needed this rant....however, it lacks all depth of understanding. TV covers 3 counties, and those areas are split between zones. For example my house is all of 1 block from the warmer zone. My foxtails are absolutely fine and having zero issues as we find the other ones heavy maintenance and quite frankly a royal pain in the ***. We have had palms at our other houses and have watched all of these varieties... they all differ in care and ability to handle the environment.

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean you need to rant on everyone else's wishes, or are you the guy that's always flipping me off in the roundabouts???

maybe when TV gets off their behind and trims these palms with "skirts" the way they should be, then you can rant.... until then blah
Wow.
1st off.. QUEEN PALMS only die here when they are very small. Not a good zone for an outdoor queen palm nursery. They handle our winters fine here. In the 80s we had 2-100 year freezes and lost less than 5% of our queens. I have posted the reasons why people are losing queens, this isn't that post.
Hint: if your queens are alot of maint. , you are maintaining them WRONG, and probably heading for a dead queen that someone will tell you the cold killed.

If you have foxtails already, good luck. Weather is a tricky thing, but sooner or later the harder freezes show up.

You are NOT in a different zone. You are in 9A, granted the south end of that zone is a little warmer than the north, but not by much. Even if you are in zone 9B, my post still stands as true.

Everyone else's wishes? Mine are the same, I have wished for 40 years foxtails ( and many other tropicals) would live here long term.

Robis are SUB tropicals. We do lose a higher % than queen palms in hard freezes. I spent many years talking people out of planting them after seeing what happened in the 80s. Finally decided they are too pretty to not use, and always small enough to replace easily. Crotons the same.

I don't flip people off. Ever.
If a lot of people flip you off on traffic circles though, the problem might be you.

Boffin 11-15-2022 08:09 AM
Native vs Invasive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzello (Post 2156752)
Areca, Foxtail and Christmas palms ... NOT for this area, and are becoming commonly planted. (Add Norfolk Island Pine to this list as well)

If you do the research (or remember the past) you will see these palms are DAMAGED most winters here. Damaged is not just a little brown from frost, it hits the center bud (heart) of the tree and takes more than a season for recovery... or kills the tree. on a 10 year freeze cycle, they are all DEAD. Horticulture is a SCIENCE, and doesn't change because some uneducated landscape designer wants to convince you they are better than other designers because they will plant these beautiful palms.. and give you a warrantee that EXCLUDES FREEZING (Acts of God) Find a designer with ANY college in FLORIDA horticulture, landscape design, or FL agriculture and you hang on to that unicorn.

These palms are beautiful, yes. But go find a healthy 20-year-old specimen of any of these (recently planted doesn't count) and I will remove this post and apologize for the following statement:

Any landscaper encouraging use of these palms in your landscape, either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is just plain greedy beyond any sort of integrity.

Rant is over, but if you already planted one of these palms, good luck this year. The acorns are dropping REALLY heavy. No that isn't science from a book, but sometimes the old-timers around here were on to something.
As an aside, the following palms are native to Florida. All others are invasive.
Buccaneer Palm (Pseudophoenix sargentii)
Royal Palm (Roystonea regia)
Paurotis Palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)
Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto)
Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal minor)
Scrub Palmetto (Sabal etonia)
Florida Silver Palm (Coccothrinax argentata)
Miami Palmetto (Sabal miamiensis)
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)
Key Thatch Palm (Leucothrinax morrisii)
Thatch Palm (Thrinax)

Bonanza 11-15-2022 01:33 PM
Another Inaccurate Statement!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boffin (Post 2157708)
As an aside, the following palms are native to Florida. All others are invasive.
Buccaneer Palm (Pseudophoenix sargentii)
Royal Palm (Roystonea regia)
Paurotis Palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)
Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto)
Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal minor)
Scrub Palmetto (Sabal etonia)
Florida Silver Palm (Coccothrinax argentata)
Miami Palmetto (Sabal miamiensis)
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)
Key Thatch Palm (Leucothrinax morrisii)
Thatch Palm (Thrinax)
Sorry Boffin, you've stated another misnomer on this thread.

Correction: Palms not native to Florida are not necessarily invasive and probably aren't invasive, meaning that they do not take over or spread by natural means. Yes, some of them can and do self-seed but you will never see a forest of them.

There are many botanical plants that are invasive in Florida but palms are not one of them!

Bonanza 11-15-2022 01:59 PM
Another Inaccurate Statement!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boffin (Post 2157708)
As an aside, the following palms are native to Florida. All others are invasive.
Buccaneer Palm (Pseudophoenix sargentii)
Royal Palm (Roystonea regia)
Paurotis Palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)
Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto)
Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal minor)
Scrub Palmetto (Sabal etonia)
Florida Silver Palm (Coccothrinax argentata)
Miami Palmetto (Sabal miamiensis)
Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens)
Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)
Key Thatch Palm (Leucothrinax morrisii)
Thatch Palm (Thrinax)
Sorry Boffin, you've stated another misnomer on this thread.

Correction: Palms not native to Florida are not necessarily invasive and probably aren't invasive, meaning that they do not take over or spread by natural means. Yes, some of them can and do self-seed but you will never see a forest of them.

There are many botanical plants that are invasive in Florida but palms are not one of them!

Boffin 11-15-2022 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 2157817)
Sorry Boffin, you've stated another misnomer on this thread.

Correction: Palms not native to Florida are not necessarily invasive and probably aren't invasive, meaning that they do not take over or spread by natural means. Yes, some of them can and do self-seed but you will never see a forest of them.

There are many botanical plants that are invasive in Florida but palms are not one of them!
Defintion by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service:
Invasive species are non-native plants, animals and other living organisms that thrive in areas where they don’t naturally live and cause (or are likely to cause) economic or environmental harm, or harm to human, animal or plant health. Invasive species degrade, change or displace native habitats, compete with native wildlife, and are major threats to biodiversity.
Next question is how is harm determined? I doubt that this person has the credentials to say anything is probably noninvasive. The statement made is likely therefore to also be a bit of misinformation.

Bonanza 11-15-2022 11:08 PM
No Misinformation on My Part
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boffin (Post 2157836)
Defintion by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service:
Invasive species are non-native plants, animals and other living organisms that thrive in areas where they don’t naturally live and cause (or are likely to cause) economic or environmental harm, or harm to human, animal or plant health. Invasive species degrade, change or displace native habitats, compete with native wildlife, and are major threats to biodiversity.
Next question is how is harm determined? I doubt that this person has the credentials to say anything is probably noninvasive. The statement made is likely therefore to also be a bit of misinformation.
Once again, Boffin, you have quoted an incorrect source for the "misinformation" you've posted regarding palms. You do not go to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for information on non-native (invasive?) palms. The correct source would be the University of Florida/IFAS, with which you obviously are not familiar; if you truly wanted pertinent information, that is the only source and the only "go-to" source. Period!

Sorry, but what you have quoted does not refer to palms or even specific plant life although there may be one or two palm varieties that could be considered invasive, but probably not at this time. Actually, what you have quoted is confusing and irrelevant because it does not apply to palms at all.

Here is a partial quote from IFAS which you may find helpful, and it refers to plants, NOT palms:

"When we consider that Florida is home to approximately 135 threatened or endangered species, the connection between invasive species prevention and management is clear. Currently, there are approximately 1,500 non-native plant species present in Florida (Wunderlin et al. 2020). Not all of these plants are invading Florida's natural areas at this time. However, once a species becomes invasive, ecological and economic costs can escalate. Having a tool to assess the status of nonnative species in the state can identify invasive plants . . . . "

I'm sorry, but I stand by my prior statements and like yours, they are not misinformation.
My credentials are through the University of Florida. What are yours???


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