[Biker Dog]

Meeting with the Rep from LifeSoils later today. Just wandering if anyone has used their services and what the results are. Also cost?

[mic4me]

Please post your meeting results. I've been thinking about them also.

[lddd51]

I have a 18mo young yard.Growth of yard was moving slowly with large bare patch in center of front yard.Grass is Zoyga. Entered the UF test program for Command.First treatment was this past November/December and results are promising.New growth takes time so this June (as my idea) had the yard plugged and applied second Command treatment.With the heavy rains the soaking compost is working its way into lawn base and growth,thickness,color are coming on strong.You will be charged by the square footage/size of your lawn. My first application was $200. The aeration was $195 (wish I had done this first as we have no top soil under our grass) and the second treatment cost was the same as the first.This method in my opinion provides more long term nutrients than short term fertilization sprays.Also will receive a lab report on my yard nutrients before treatment and nine/twelve months post treatment.

[Biker Dog]

The Rep gave us a list of homes they have treated 4 months ago. We drove past them and were not impressed at all. Zoysia should be cut at 2 to 2 1/2". These lawns where 4 to 5" . Therefore we could not see if there were bad spots down deep. If we left our grass that long it would look the same as those, if not better.
So our golf cart ride saved us over $400.00 by not using their service and we will keep using the natural fertilizer that we have been using.

JUST OUR THOUGHTS.

[Ozzello]

I have found the avg. pH in this area to be 7.2. (after 1000s of pH tests)
A bit alkaline for Zoysia (and most everything else you are growing) causing the grass/plants/trees to have difficulty with uptake of iron and other micro-nutrients.
I have had this discussion with the owners and managers of several of the larger lawn spray companies, and they either glaze over and change the subject, or give a song and dance about the experts back at the main office.

Example: The Florida DOT requires.. yes REQUIRES a target soil pH prior to even laying sod.
Yes, us old school native Floridians know how to grow grass here, have done so for over a century, and we don't have to spread poisons and fertilizer every 3 months to do it . Most of you have hired companies that are good at getting customers while overlooking the MOST IMPORTANT THING next to water.... soil acidity.

Save yourself a LOT of money...do a spot test... Spread a 1/2 pound of coffee in a 10x10 area of your lawn, note results within 4 weeks... you can thank me later.

[Biker Dog]

Originally Posted by Ozzello

I have found the avg. pH in this area to be 7.2. (after 1000s of pH tests)
A bit acidic for Zoysia (and most everything else you are growing) causing the grass/plants/trees to have difficulty with uptake of iron and other micro-nutrients.
I have had this discussion with the owners and managers of several of the larger lawn spray companies, and they either glaze over and change the subject, or give a song and dance about the experts back at the main office.

Example: The Florida DOT requires.. yes REQUIRES a target soil pH prior to even laying sod.
Yes, us old school native Floridians know how to grow grass here, have done so for over a century, and we don't have to spread poisons and fertilizer every 3 months to do it . Most of you have hired companies that are good at getting customers while overlooking the MOST IMPORTANT THING next to water.... soil acidity.

Save yourself a LOT of money...do a spot test... Spread a 1/2 pound of coffee in a 10x10 area of your lawn, note results within 4 weeks... you can thank me later.

Is that used or unused coffee??? What can we expect as results?

[Ozzello]

Either used or fresh, spread evenly like fertilizer. Easier to spread dry.

Result should be a deeper almost blue green and fewer pests.

EDIT===I did mean to say the soil is too ALKALINE, not too acidic.

[autumnspring]

Originally Posted by Ozzello

I have found the avg. pH in this area to be 7.2. (after 1000s of pH tests)
A bit alkaline for Zoysia (and most everything else you are growing) causing the grass/plants/trees to have difficulty with uptake of iron and other micro-nutrients.
I have had this discussion with the owners and managers of several of the larger lawn spray companies, and they either glaze over and change the subject, or give a song and dance about the experts back at the main office.

Example: The Florida DOT requires.. yes REQUIRES a target soil pH prior to even laying sod.
Yes, us old school native Floridians know how to grow grass here, have done so for over a century, and we don't have to spread poisons and fertilizer every 3 months to do it . Most of you have hired companies that are good at getting customers while overlooking the MOST IMPORTANT THING next to water.... soil acidity.

Save yourself a LOT of money...do a spot test... Spread a 1/2 pound of coffee in a 10x10 area of your lawn, note results within 4 weeks... you can thank me later.

RE: PH TEST
Our soil is loaded with LIME. You will see people selling those white boulders by the side of the road etc-they are blocks of lime stone. Remember those toys that we used to send away for from cereal boxes? The ones where you would put baking soda into the and add vinegar (acidic acid) and they would go around your bathtub. Take a scoop of your lawn,"soil," add some vinegar and you can watch it fizz from all the limestone.

RE: PROPER PH BEFORE LAYING SOD
I've never heard that before. I expect you could apply dilute acid to the,"soil," and get it to read anything you wish. Due to the limestone, it would quickly go back to being alkaline. The answer is to add organic matter. I asked the builder to do so and as you said they looked with glazed eyes. Are you sure that test is not for drainage which is normally required.

WHAT WE DID-We have a 5,000 sq foot lawn. IT IS NUTS AND A LOT OF WORK. I took an 1.5 inch old auger bit, put it one a 2 foot extension and drilled holes 7 inch deep every 6 inches in my lawn using a rechargeable drill. The 7 inch is important as your lawn has stuff like the pipes for inground sprinklers and wires for cable TV and they are down eight inches. My drill has lithium ion batteries so it is more reasonable in weight and run time. I have three sets of batteries and the recharge time is one hour. I truned the clutch so that it would click, slip, it it hit anythng. It took me TWO YEARS as wife has the good sense not to work when it is too hot etc. I lost count of the bags but a best guess is 70 50lb bags. My lawn is GREAT. I've watered TWICE, total, this year.

You can actually grow grass in half an inch of soil on top of CEMENT. To do it you will need to water every day, fertilize every week or two. HUM take a shovel and stab it into your lawn. The roots should go down at least 6-8 inches. You will clearly see the soil that came with the sod-about and inch thick. If, you need to water every day and your grass says I am not rooting into that cement, you know you have a soil issue.

I think someone mentioned coffee grinds. I added ????? coffee grinds to the manure. The earthworms love coffee and they aerate and turn the soil. Only trouble is they insist upon stopping for a coffee break-HAD TO SEE IF YOU WERE STILL READING MY LONG POST.

[autumnspring]

Originally Posted by Biker Dog

Is that used or unused coffee??? What can we expect as results?

The idea is to add organic matter to our sandy clay soil.
Read my earlier post.

You will find charts on the internet that will tell you how much organic matter your need to add to improve your soil. Un-used coffee, even the cheap stuff is far too expensive for this use as it is like 3.00 a pound and you will need like one pound per sq foot of lawn. You can save your own coffee grounds. Starbucks used to save the used grounds for gardeners. Perhaps, a restaurant you patronize would save them for you.

Manure is the traditional stuff and it is far less costly than coffee unless you can get used coffee grounds for free and don't mind the labor of picking them up. As to manure. The one with it's own ad campaign and jingle is $5.00 for 50 pounds-gift wrapped-it is practically odorless. You can also get manure for free. You will need to age it AND HOPEFULLY YOU DO NOT LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR ME AS IT DOES STINK

[Ozzello]

Coffee IS organic

Coffee is the economical fast way to better pH

Coffee is FERTILIZER, and CHEAP compared to similar fertilizer...

One 60 kg bag of coffee contains 1,026 g of nitrogen, 60 g of phosphorous, 918 g of potassium, 162 g of calcium, 90 g of magnesium, 72 g of sulfur, 0.96 g of boron, 0.80 g of copper, 3.6 g of iron, 1.2 g of manganese, 0.002 g of molybdenum, and 0.72 g of zinc (Malavolta, 197). The pulp resulting from processing contains 1,068 g of nitrogen, 84 g of phosphorous, 2,250 g of potassium, 246 g of calcium, 78 g of magnesium, 90 g of sulfur, 2.04 g of boron, 1.08 g of copper, 9.0 g of iron, 1.80 g of Manganese, 0.004 g of Molybdenum, and 4.20 g of Zinc (Malavolta 197).

Yes I am POSITIVE the STATE of FLORIDA does a pH test of the 6 inches of top soil required prior to laying sod. Would you like a list of all the tests I ran for the STATE as pertaining to the typical VILLAGES landscape... and my credentials as a civil engineer, soils expert, concrete structures expert, nurseryman and underground utilities installer / inspector? Pretty much posting to help people with what I know , please do some factual homework if you wish to question my info.

[autumnspring]

[QUOTE=Ozzello;1438970]Coffee IS organic

Coffee is the economical fast way to better pH

Coffee is FERTILIZER, and CHEAP compared to similar fertilizer...

One 60 kg bag of coffee contains 1,026 g of nitrogen, 60 g of phosphorous, 918 g of potassium, 162 g of calcium, 90 g of magnesium, 72 g of sulfur, 0.96 g of boron, 0.80 g of copper, 3.6 g of iron, 1.2 g of manganese, 0.002 g of molybdenum, and 0.72 g of zinc (Malavolta, 197). The pulp resulting from processing contains 1,068 g of nitrogen, 84 g of phosphorous, 2,250 g of potassium, 246 g of calcium, 78 g of magnesium, 90 g of sulfur, 2.04 g of boron, 1.08 g of copper, 9.0 g of iron, 1.80 g of Manganese, 0.004 g of Molybdenum, and 4.20 g of Zinc (Malavolta 197).

Yes I am POSITIVE the STATE of FLORIDA does a pH test of the 6 inches of top soil required prior to laying sod. Would you like a list of all the tests I ran for the STATE as pertaining to the typical VILLAGES landscape... and my credentials as a civil engineer, soils expert, concrete structures expert, nurseryman and underground utilities installer / inspector? Pretty much posting to help people with what I know , please do some factual homework if you wish to question my info.[/QUOT
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Assuming your numbers are correct 60 kg of coffee is 132.277 lbs (pounds). Coffee is sold not by the lb but in 13 oz cans that we buy and it is like $3.99 dollars so .306923076 per oz. Your 60 kg 132.277 pounds x 16 to ounces is 2116.432 ozx.306923076=$649.58 for 132.277 pounds. As I said, it is far too expensive to use.

Manure is purchased mostly not for it's fertilizer value but to add organic matter to our SANDY/CLAY ALKALINE SOIL.

Your info? I will bet your quoted numbers vary from coffee lot to coffee lot. The same by the way is true of manure.

In the end what matters is COST. The goal to change our,"soil," is 25 lbs per 100 sq ft-10 ft x 10 ft of manure

[champion6]

Oh Lord.

[big guy]

Originally Posted by suesiegel

RE: PH TEST
Our soil is loaded with LIME. You will see people selling those white boulders by the side of the road etc-they are blocks of lime stone. Remember those toys that we used to send away for from cereal boxes? The ones where you would put baking soda into the and add vinegar (acidic acid) and they would go around your bathtub. Take a scoop of your lawn,"soil," add some vinegar and you can watch it fizz from all the limestone.

RE: PROPER PH BEFORE LAYING SOD
I've never heard that before. I expect you could apply dilute acid to the,"soil," and get it to read anything you wish. Due to the limestone, it would quickly go back to being alkaline. The answer is to add organic matter. I asked the builder to do so and as you said they looked with glazed eyes. Are you sure that test is not for drainage which is normally required.

WHAT WE DID-We have a 5,000 sq foot lawn. IT IS NUTS AND A LOT OF WORK. I took an 1.5 inch old auger bit, put it one a 2 foot extension and drilled holes 7 inch deep every 6 inches in my lawn using a rechargeable drill. The 7 inch is important as your lawn has stuff like the pipes for inground sprinklers and wires for cable TV and they are down eight inches. My drill has lithium ion batteries so it is more reasonable in weight and run time. I have three sets of batteries and the recharge time is one hour. I truned the clutch so that it would click, slip, it it hit anythng. It took me TWO YEARS as wife has the good sense not to work when it is too hot etc. I lost count of the bags but a best guess is 70 50lb bags. My lawn is GREAT. I've watered TWICE, total, this year.

You can actually grow grass in half an inch of soil on top of CEMENT. To do it you will need to water every day, fertilize every week or two. HUM take a shovel and stab it into your lawn. The roots should go down at least 6-8 inches. You will clearly see the soil that came with the sod-about and inch thick. If, you need to water every day and your grass says I am not rooting into that cement, you know you have a soil issue.

I think someone mentioned coffee grinds. I added ????? coffee grinds to the manure. The earthworms love coffee and they aerate and turn the soil. Only trouble is they insist upon stopping for a coffee break-HAD TO SEE IF YOU WERE STILL READING MY LONG POST.

It's not "LIME that the soil is loaded with". It's phosphorus which occurs naturally.