[jimbo2012]

Having more visceral fat is tied to a greater risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer, even after controlling for standard risk factors, researchers found.

In a prospective study, each standard deviation increase in visceral adipose tissue was associated with a 44% increased risk of cardiovascular disease (HR 1.44, P≤0.014) during a median follow-up of 5 years, according to Caroline Fox, MD, MPH, of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, and colleagues.

The increase was also associated with a 43% greater risk of cancer (HR 1.43, P≤0.014), they reported online in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.

Adding the amount of visceral adipose tissue to a model containing other risk factors significantly improved the prediction of cardiovascular risk, as seen in a 16.3% improvement in net reclassification, they found.

"These results support the hypothesis that visceral fat may partially underlie the association of clinical adiposity measures with cardiovascular disease and cancer," they wrote.

"There is no doubt at this point that the visceral fat deposition is having an impact on systemic hormonal patterns, systemic inflammatory patterns, and all of that is to the detriment of both the diabetes risk, cardiovascular risk, and -- as this particular case nicely demonstrated -- the cancer incidence risk," commented Philipp Scherer, PhD, of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.

Although belly fat has been associated with cardiovascular disease and cancer in previous cross-sectional studies, fewer prospective data are available.

In the current study, Fox and colleagues examined data from 3,086 people (mean age 50.2; 49% female) participating in a substudy of the Framingham Heart Study Offspring and Third Generation cohorts. All of the participants underwent an assessment of fat depots by multidetector CT and were free from cardiovascular disease and cancer at the time of imaging.

The average body mass index (BMI) at baseline was 27.7 kg/m2.

Through a follow-up lasting up to 7.4 years, there were 90 incident cardiovascular events (including MI, angina, coronary insufficiency, cerebrovascular accident, transient ischemic attack, intermittent claudication, congestive heart failure, and cardiovascular death), 141 cases of cancer, and 71 all-cause deaths.

Cardiovascular and cancer events -- but not all-cause death -- were related to the amount of visceral adipose tissue after adjustment for age, sex, systolic blood pressure, hypertension treatment, diabetes, smoking status, total and HDL cholesterol, and BMI. The results were unchanged by further adjustment for waist circumference.

Other types of fat depots -- including pericardial adipose tissue, periaortic adipose tissue, and subcutaneous adipose tissue -- were not associated with any of the outcomes.

The improved prediction of cardiovascular risk that resulted from the addition of visceral adipose tissue to a model containing standard risk factors contrasted with prior research showing that the addition of waist circumference does not improve risk prediction, the authors noted.

"One potential explanation is that waist circumference is a surrogate marker of visceral adiposity and reflects both subcutaneous adipose tissue and visceral adipose tissue," they wrote.

There is some evidence to "support a potential link between visceral adipose tissue and biological pathways important in the pathogenesis of multiple disease outcomes," they noted.

"Adipokines, biologically active molecules secreted from adipose tissue, are key components of these pathways and include inflammatory cytokines, angiogenic factors, lipid metabolites, and extracellular matrix components," they wrote. "Adipokine secretion appears to differ between specific fat depots with visceral adipose tissue demonstrating greater expression of pro-inflammatory and proangiogenic genes compared with subcutaneous adipose tissue."

"Furthermore," they wrote, "arterioles within visceral adipose tissue compared with subcutaneous adipose tissue were more likely to exhibit endothelial dysfunction, suggesting a potential toxic effect of visceral adipose tissue on the vasculature."

The researchers acknowledged that their analysis was limited by the mostly white participants, the observational design, which prevents conclusions about causality and treatment recommendations, and the lack of information on any weight change during follow-up.


The study was supported by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute's Framingham Heart Study. One of the study authors was supported by a Research Career Development Award from the NHLBI.


my .02, endothelial dysfunction is related to the ingestion of oils, olive as example.

[jimbo2012]

someone asked what viceral fat was



Forgot the source of the above article was bionews-tx.com

[Villages PL]

Got a 40-inch waistline? Beware!

The above link provides a list of diseases for men who have a waistline above 40 inches and women with a waistline over 34 inches. Notice that the list includes Alzheimers.

I forgot to mention: If you decide to measure your waistline, for the purpose of determining your health risk, you're not supposed to hold your stomach in. Stay relaxed and let it all hang out. :-)

[DougB]

]

You could have warned me before taking my picture!

[graciegirl]

Are you our collective conscience, Jimbo?

[jimbo2012]

Just sharing, been there myself.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Got a 40-inch waistline? Beware!

The above link provides a list of diseases for men who have a waistline above 40 inches and women with a waistline over 34 inches. Notice that the list includes Alzheimers.

I forgot to mention: If you decide to measure your waistline, for the purpose of determining your health risk, you're not supposed to hold your stomach in. Stay relaxed and let it all hang out.

[fromct]

Jimbo and PL,

Your posts on food have occasionally been new and informative to me but everything I've read/heard also stresses the importance of exercise along with diet to be truly healthy. Jimbo, I've seen pictures of some of your projects so I get some idea of what you do to stay active. But I'd really like to know from both of you what you do to complete your healthy lifestyles.

Also, I'd like to know the before and after stats that demonstrate how your lifestyle changes improved your 'numbers'. Especially waist size!

Pete

[jimbo2012]

Pete we, my wife and I are more active due to fact we have more energy on this diet, or you may say way of life.

We both lost weight but that was only secondary to improving our blood tests results and BP to the point of eliminating all meds.

I lost about 35lbs in 6-8 months & maintain it without thinking about it,
I also eat as much as I want, likely by volume more than most men.

Remember most of the built up toxins flush out of your system in about 4 weeks, that alone changes U.

I suggest buying or downloading the DVD Forks over knives, it may change your eating habits in 90 minutes

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by fromct

Jimbo and PL,

Your posts on food have occasionally been new and informative to me but everything I've read/heard also stresses the importance of exercise along with diet to be truly healthy. Jimbo, I've seen pictures of some of your projects so I get some idea of what you do to stay active. But I'd really like to know from both of you what you do to complete your healthy lifestyles.

Also, I'd like to know the before and after stats that demonstrate how your lifestyle changes improved your 'numbers'. Especially waist size!

Pete

Thanks for the complement and thoughtful question, but I'm not sure I can be of much help.

Exercise is important but nowhere near as important as ones diet regimen, in my opinion. I think the importance can be divided up to be about 80% - 20% in favor of diet.

Sorry, I don't think I can be of much help concerning waist size because I have never had a large waist. I've always been at the low end for BMI. But I can tell you that it gets more difficult to maintain a good waist size as I get older. I am maintaining it but it seems there's no room for error anymore. In other words, as we get older we have to face the reality that we can no longer eat the way we did when we were teenagers.

I don't have a lot to offer in the way of numbers because I never had a blood test until I reached age 65. Everything was within acceptable limits on my first test and every other test since then. I'm 72. Although, after I started the vegan diet my cholesterol improved. Once my blood sugar went up to 100. After I got more serious about working-out with hand weights, it went down to 86 on the next blood test.

All my life my approach has been to maintain good health, rather than let things get out of control and then try to fix them. And it seems to have worked for me. I feel well and don't need to take any medications.

Hope this will be of some help.

[fromct]

Jimbo and PL,

Thanks for your replies. Jimbo, I found a free version of FOK on HULU and got most of that info from your and PL's prior posts. One part that I didn't remember was Rip Esselsytn's story and the Engine 2 experience - I was impressed with their results and I found a site containing pictures of many of the dishes from their cookbook. Many of them look/sound good and I'm planning to try some of them.

PL, you're fortunate that you've never needed to exercise to maintain your weight. I'm 70 and had to stop eating 'like a teenager' around 45 but could still sneak in an occasional 'pigout' without any obvious damage. Since 60, I can gain very quickly and have mostly decided it's just not worth the drama of worrying about the effect of every meal and I'm probably an 80% vegetarian at this point. I eat aprox. 1800-2000 calories/day - a good amount of it at breakfast. I've been within 5 lbs. of the same weight for the last 10 years so that part seems to be working. I've never had any problems with blood tests or bp.

Reagardless of what I eat, I've always had to get regular activity to maintain my weight and feel good. Most of the time that included maintaining at least 2 houses as well as some version of formal/informal exercise regimen. 2 houses, Nordic Trac and Total Gym are the pillars of my current routine.

In case you're interested, here's a link at the Mayo Clinic that I found to be very informative and impartial:

Nutrition and healthy eating - MayoClinic.com

Pete

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by fromct

Jimbo and PL,

Thanks for your replies. Jimbo, I found a free version of FOK on HULU and got most of that info from your and PL's prior posts. One part that I didn't remember was Rip Esselsytn's story and the Engine 2 experience - I was impressed with their results and I found a site containing pictures of many of the dishes from their cookbook. Many of them look/sound good and I'm planning to try some of them.

PL, you're fortunate that you've never needed to exercise to maintain your weight. I'm 70 and had to stop eating 'like a teenager' around 45 but could still sneak in an occasional 'pigout' without any obvious damage. Since 60, I can gain very quickly and have mostly decided it's just not worth the drama of worrying about the effect of every meal and I'm probably an 80% vegetarian at this point. I eat aprox. 1800-2000 calories/day - a good amount of it at breakfast. I've been within 5 lbs. of the same weight for the last 10 years so that part seems to be working. I've never had any problems with blood tests or bp.

Reagardless of what I eat, I've always had to get regular activity to maintain my weight and feel good. Most of the time that included maintaining at least 2 houses as well as some version of formal/informal exercise regimen. 2 houses, Nordic Trac and Total Gym are the pillars of my current routine.

In case you're interested, here's a link at the Mayo Clinic that I found to be very informative and impartial:

Nutrition and healthy eating - MayoClinic.com

Pete

Pete,

One of the books that had a big influence on me was, "Beyond The 120 Year Diet" by Roy Walford. In this book the author explains the importance of "calorie restriction". The diet is known as the "CRON" diet and its purpose is to promote health and longevity. CRON stands for "Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition". Perhaps you've already heard of it. I don't follow the diet exactly as presented in the book because the author recommends eating meat and taking lots of vitamins. But I do follow the basic premise of the book which is to restrict calories (for health and longevity) by eliminating all unnecessary calories. It's possible to take in less calories and get better nutrition than someone who's takes in a lot of calories.

I said there seems to be no room for error as I get older but now that I think about it, it has more to do with restricting calories. Practicing calorie restriction slows down the metabolism and that's what slows down aging. So it's good in that respect. But when you have a slow metabolism, taking in excess calories (pigging out) will cause rapid weight gain. So it's a diet that requires a lot of self control. Just thought I'd put that in better prospective.

Thanks for the link.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Got a 40-inch waistline? Beware!

The above link provides a list of diseases for men who have a waistline above 40 inches and women with a waistline over 34 inches. Notice that the list includes Alzheimers.

I forgot to mention: If you decide to measure your waistline, for the purpose of determining your health risk, you're not supposed to hold your stomach in. Stay relaxed and let it all hang out. :-)

One size does not fit all, apparently.

After caring for my mom in this home (after her husband died) for six years and seeing the progression of early onset alzheimers disease to the middle stage when I could no longer care for her as far as getting her in and out of the bath tub nor the shower, at which time she went to live in an assisted living place and right to the ending stage when she was in a skilled nursing care facility for 18 months until passing at age 91.....

I have to say that she had no belly fat. That is a hangup of yours , but one size does not fit all.

When visiting the assisted living facility, all of the dementia and Alzheimer patients were stick thin...........ditto for the skilled living facility, however, as a great credit to the latter facility, they spoon fed their patients and put the weight back on the people.........they were truly angels of mercy.

My mom was 4 feet 11" and petite her entire life. Never was fat.
She weighed under 100 lbs. Then, when she got forgetful and forgot to eat, she went down to 85 pounds. After we got her, and she ate my good home cooking.......we got her back to a little over the 100 lbs. and she looked good. So, again, not everyone is the same.

We know plenty of skinny people who got alzheimers or dementia or were severely demented with alzheimers..........

In fact, I cannot think of one fat person we know who got that disease.

Unless you've got experience in caring for such a person, do not believe every single thing that you read. I realize you are concerned that you yourself do not end up like some of your relatives........but you know something, I never worry that I'm going to get alzheimers as we are all different.............my mom was "confused" long before she ever was diagnosed...........

Rather than belly fat, I'd look for symptoms such as early onset "forgetting where one puts the keys to the house"; "locking oneself outside the house".......plus loss of sense of smell. She always worried that she wouldn't be able to smell the GAS.......and I'd assure her (this is when she was living alone with my stepfather) that, "Mom you do not have gas in this house. " (She was thinking back to New Jersey)......but she couldn't smell anything...........perfume, food cooking, nothing.

She probably had it long before age 80......but hid it well.
The nurses all said that the difference between my mom and others in the early stages was that she knew she was confused.....whereas some do not.

She'd forget what day mass was and walk to church in the middle of the week. She'd forget what day her hair appointment was and go down every single day. The hairdresser, a man, was so kindly and understanding and would tell me, "Your momma is confused"........but she still functioned.........it wasn't until her husband died that we knew the full extent of this confusion........when she came to live with us and the rest is history.

One of the reasons we moved back "home" after relocating to Florida twenty years ago was that "Life is what happens when you are making other plans"........so believe me, I can speak from experience about people with NO BELLY FAT getting Alzheimers disease.

She passed in 2003........thus lived pretty long after diagnosis.
The end is not a pretty sight. It is really THE LONG GOODBYE.

That six years in our home was quite an education.........
Not to mention the next three plus years in the assisted living and then skilled nursing facility.........so we've seen a lot of such patients.

We befriended many of them and they would look forward to our visits.

Just saying............don't believe every thing you read unless you've been down that road personally and can vouch for it.............

P.S. Also, when she was still in the home she had shared with my stepfather, we gave her BIG CALENDARS and would mark the dates for things..............the calendars would literally DISAPPEAR. We gave her African Violet Plants to tend to; they would disappear. We TRIED EVERYTHING to help her cope........finally, it was easier to have her move in with us.........only once did she "wander away"......as I've told that story before. She seemed content living with us as she no longer had to THINK or MAKE DECISIONS..........so that might have extended her first stage of the disease.

But when the geriatric specialist tried to administer the cognitive test, he couldn't.....we were not in the room with them.
I have no idea what she did or said to him........but he came out and told me, ".......I am so sorry for you, your mom is severely demented with Alzheimers Disease"...........when people would visit us, she was quite sociable and people would say, ".........there is nothing wrong with your mother". My elder brother would say, ".......you read too much". Of course, he was in New Jersey and not experiencing her "NIGHT TIME WANDERING" called Sundowners' Syndrome.
Go figure.

All I'm saying is unless you have first hand knowledge, not all of them have belly fat.

[Villages PL]

Senior Citizen,

Not all wreckless drivers get into accidents and not all careful drivers manage to avoid accidents. Does that mean it doesn't matter how we drive?

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Senior Citizen,

Not all wreckless drivers get into accidents and not all careful drivers manage to avoid accidents. Does that mean it doesn't matter how we drive?

Did you mean reckless drivers? Or those who never had a wreck?
I did say "one size does not fit all"......same idea.

Often, we cannot see the forest for the trees.............

Restricting calories and a fixation on depriving oneself on a daily basis is not normal. But then, any mom or dad who has raised a healthy family who now are raising their own healthy families......do know about healthy eating............without being a martyr or borderline anorexic.........

I forgot to mention that when my mom went into the skilled nursing, her geriatric doctor suggested "trying her on Aricept" for a test......knowing full well that it can take away their appetite and also cause dizziness..both of which happened in my mom (who was severely demented with Alzheimers) ..........she lost all of the healthy weight I had put back on her by giving her three healthy nutritious meals per day in my home for six years......bringing her weight back up from the 85 lbs. to 100 lbs...........then going back down to the 85 lbs. on her 4'll" frame.

One day after beginning the Aricept (which was to help slow down the memory loss; she had her LONG TERM MEMORY but not her short term memory)......she stood up from the sofa in the assisted living home and said, "Oh, I feel dizzy". She also always , her entire life, had low blood pressure (which again is different than that article re the high blood pressure)........also, Aricept has been known to cause dizziness......

A crew of painters heard her comment and called in the nurse who called an ambulance which transported her to the hospital (for a side effect from the Aricept).....the dizziness.

After a few days in hospital with all kinds of tests including some "brain wave" test which left her with little "x's" all over her head......she was released. They could find nothing wrong with her.

An internist, who happens to also be our neighbor, called me at home to say that (as I've mentioned before) all of her bodily organs were excellent for her AGE.......which at the time was late 80's.....she was still in middle stage Alzheimers..........he said her lungs, her heart, and all of her other parts that they checked were excellent.......again, for her age.

My mom did NOT do well on prescription drugs, so the geriatric doctor and I agreed to take her off of Aricept. It also made her lose all the weight again........however, once she went to skilled nursing care facility, they put the weight back on her by spoon feeding her three meals, plus other snacks per day. If they wanted her stick thin, they wouldn't have fed them so well............the trays were humongous with all kinds of offerings.
They wanted them to eat.

We shared one Thanksgiving dinner there as she was too frail to come back home to our place.......as did other families.......even a neighbor's daughter in law and son in law, an Air Force General from Virginia, was visiting at the Thanksgiving dinner........and we all ate the same food they eat every day and it was delicious............this was a private nursing home.

Up until the day of her death, they attempted to feed her and offer her fluids.......but she could no longer swallow.......so nature took over.

At 91, it was her time to go.......it didn't take long with the "comfort care" or "palliative care".......it was very peaceful........not what I expected.

But I will say it again, she never had belly fat and still got Alzheimers.
Her blood pressure was LOW. Her whole life she would get dizzy when standing up from a chair. Everyone is different. WE all know that.

She also was allergic to sulphur drugs and knew it.......this is why she never took pharmaceuticals. Even with the Alzheimers she kept her mobility until near the end when they put her in a wheelchair.

When she lived with us, she could walk as fast as a teenager.
Our neighbors would comment on that.

The way I look at it, none of us is getting out of here ALIVE.
So, we all have to go from something.
Why worry about it every single waking moment?