[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by DALEPQ

We constantly hear the media refer to "Cases", but never hear how the "Cases" are defined. I believe that when "Cases" are mentioned it means a positive test, but no
mention as to what the severity factor is, just that we should be terrified of "Cases".
I know quite a few folks that are listed as "Cases" who have had Covid, and totally
recovered with having had relatively minor symptoms. Yes, I also know of others that have been really sick from Covid.
My point is that simply listing "Cases" just isn't the complete story, but keeping everyone
terrified seems to be the ongoing media narrative.

Correct. That's why hospitalizations, and deaths in the absence of significant comorbidities is a much better metric to follow.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

While I agree with your post, the last line is inflammatory. I expect both sides believe that they have the facts. If we are to get past this point in history, both sides need to try.

First do you know how many threats I get on here claiming I am being political. It is insane.

I never post anything remotely political without a back up quoted article or two or a link to a video. Although those who attack me each day very seldom supply any.
backup

I posted this because as we watch a very organized movement against vaccination ( I did not post the Representive using the anti drug chant “just say no” in referring to the vaccine.

The OP made good points, but I differ in blaming the world should anything happen. We HAD the vaccine....easily available. The rest of the world is not in that position.

How can there be a forum where only certain “facts” are allowed.

I am not the political one.....this was made political by our own leaders. Since day one.

Sorry if I get brusque, but getting tired of self appointed critics, WITHOUT ANY FACTS TO DISPUTE, calling every post political. We are discussing Covid vaccinations, and lack of participation, and there is no doubt of the OPEN resistance along political lines.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Explain it---like you don't already know

OK, when you post phrases related to "conservative gatherings" and "responses at CPAC" you have turned a thread about deaths from COVID instantly political. When you make veiled references to "doing more earlier" you make it political, just not as obvious as when you name the former POTUS. I can make many more "factual" posts about how the other side is ruining our country, but they would be political as well

Any further questions?????

First, you have every right to begin a thread on anything.

If you find something I said to be untrue, challenge and make a case.

I am not responsible for who makes it political, yet you try to lay it at my feet.

Sometimes, there are truths that fit that are uncomfortable, and adults know it. If many posts on here go unchallenged in certain subjects, it simply is a exercise in passing on misinformation and hate.

Perhaps that is what you want, but in reading your posts, I think you are smarter than that. You never see me post in areas that I know nothing about. I very seldom question you or others on medical areas, but when you, or anyone begins to either tell flagrant lies, enable those who do, or openly ignore facts to suit your narrative,,,,well

Oh, and my post was a response to another, and was exactly on the same subject, except I am not placing total blame on non Americans....it just isn’t so.

We had or have control. It is our call.

This is different than medical reasons for no shot....it is pure politics, not by me.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bucco

First, you have every right to begin a thread on anything.

If you find something I said to be untrue, challenge and make a case.

I am not responsible for who makes it political, yet you try to lay it at my feet.

Sometimes, there are truths that fit that are uncomfortable, and adults know it. If many posts on here go unchallenged in certain subjects, it simply is a exercise in passing on misinformation and hate.

Perhaps that is what you want, but in reading your posts, I think you are smarter than that. You never see me post in areas that I know nothing about. I very seldom question you or others on medical areas, but when you, or anyone begins to either tell flagrant lies, enable those who do, or openly ignore facts to suit your narrative,,,,well

Oh, and my post was a response to another, and was exactly on the same subject, except I am not placing total blame on non Americans....it just isn’t so.

We had or have control. It is our call.

This is different than medical reasons for no shot....it is pure politics, not by me.

I am not saying whether or not your "facts" are true, nor am saying I agree or disagree with your statements. I am merely pointing out that many threads are closed by the moderators due to the introduction of politics, and, correct me if you think I am wrong since I didn't count, you are the leading contender in that field. You tend to disguise your political opinion as "facts", such as this could have been handled better and sooner if not for XXXX. That is an opinion, not a fact, and I don't know if that is true any more than you do. Like they said in "The Godfather", this is business, not personal

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Looks like both sides are here and hurling insults. Yup, thread is doomed.

I am never sure what side I am on, but I do agree with this statement.

Some just have a bubbling need to vent anger. Many of us are very tired of it. Same old, same old, but sometimes the poster switches sides....and names.

[Two Bills]

C'mon Son!
The post was political click bait from the off.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

Please provide your definition of “spiking” because it can’t possibly coincide with the generally accepted definition. I just looked at the latest Covid new case graph, updated yesterday, and the word spike certainly wouldn’t be an accurate description.

[Altavia]

Covid-19 vaccines have saved nearly 280,000 lives in the US so far.

The unvacinated are varient factories infecting children and those who can not be vaccinated.

There are non mRNA vaccines.

[JMintzer]

The there's this...

Covid deaths in U.S. hit lowest level in 10 months

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I am never sure what side I am on, but I do agree with this statement.

Some just have a bubbling need to vent anger. Many of us are very tired of it. Same old, same old, but sometimes the poster switches sides....and names.

Just want to address the implications and accusations.

My user name is Bucco. It is my only user name....no others. I did have another...Rags123, which was suggested to me way back by talkhost. Not used since my wife used it to PM someone, and was attacked very “loudly” about guess what...politics.
——————————————-

I am, as of 2016 an independent, after over 50 years as a working member of GOP. My views have always been issue driven, not by party, thus you may think about “switching sides”, but trust me I never have looked back except in sadness. I will speak my true feelings should I choose to post. I will be honest, and as so, can also accept honesty.
————————-

Not sure why disagreeing about lying or spreading false conspiracies, or anything anti American is, to you, venting anger. I have served my country in various ways for 65 of my 82 years. Yes, I am sensitive to the violence on Jan 6, because I worked there and roamed those halls. That is a sacred building, at least to me.
————————————-

I simply respond to a post, and as normal am confronted not with a post disagreeing with my post, but aimed at me. The issue is gone, and the hatred surfaces. If you have another opinion please share. Just discuss the issue and stop with the games played. Not impressed or intimidated.
————————-

But do not speak to me about “bubbling” anger.

I will always speak out against lies, commission or omission. I start out assuming everyone is like that, then I am confronted with this “anger”. This same charge has been made, always on the same thing.....I allowed a fact you just were uncomfortable with.
—————-
This was not “political click bat”. BTK started a good thread about the lack of vaccinations. He alluded to non Americans being the reason. I tool exception to that, using just a few recent statements to make my point.

NOBODY has posted disagreement with what I said. Just, as said here “same led same old” while totally ignoring the thread subject. And calling me out personally for making this political. I was at no rallies.....I did not exhort people to not get a vaccine.....I did not mock anyone, as this is important.

So, please....at least be honest with your posts. Stop making things up, and if you wish to converse, do so ON WHATEVER THE SUBJECT OF THE POST YOU RESPOND TO.

There are some who enjoy, NOT conversation, but concentrated attacks.

I am not the one to be angry at.....try facing truth about who leads the attacks on truth. Try discussing the content, and stop coming after the person who is sharing the truth, although it may be uncomfortable for you to hear.

Truth, I speak of. If my opinion, I say that. To say what I posted here today is not true.....well, a problem then exists that only you can resolve,

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Just want to address the implications and accusations.

My user name is Bucco. It is my only user name....no others. I did have another...Rags123, which was suggested to me way back by talkhost. Not used since my wife used it to PM someone, and was attacked very “loudly” about guess what...politics.

I am, as of 2016 an independent, after over 50 years as a working member of GOP. My views have always been issue driven, not by party, thus you may think about “switching sides”, but trust me I never have looked back except in sadness.

Not sure why disagreeing about lying or spreading false conspiracies, or anything anti American is, to you, venting anger.

I simply respond to a post, and as normal am confronted not with a post disagreeing with my post, but aimed at me. The issue is gone, and the hatred surfaces. If you have another opinion please share.

But do not speak to me about “bubbling” anger.

I will always speak out against lies, commission or omission. I start out assuming everyone is like that, then I am confronted with this “anger”

This was not “political click bat”. BTK started a good thread about the lack of vaccinations. He alluded to non Americans being the reason. I tool exception to that, using just a few recent statements to make my point.

NOBODY has posted disagreement with what I said. Just, as said here “same led same old” while totally ignoring the thread subject. And calling me out personally for making this political. I was at no rallies.....I did not exhort people to not get a vaccine.....I did not mock anyone, as this is important.

So, please....at least be honest with your posts. Stop making things up, and if you wish to converse, do so ON WHATEVER THE SUBJECT OF THE POST YOU RESPOND TO.

There are some who enjoy, NOT conversation, but concentrated attacks.

I am not the one to be angry at.....try facing truth about who leads the attacks on truth. Try discussing the content, and stop coming after the person who is sharing the truth, although it may be uncomfortable for you to hear.

Truth, I speak of. If my opinion, I say that. To say what I posted here today is not true.....well, a problem then exists that only you can resolve,

It's actually quite easy to discuss these topics without injecting politics into the argument...

Well, it is for most people...

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

The there's this...

Covid deaths in U.S. hit lowest level in 10 months

You know better than I deaths lag hospitalizations by several months.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

Since there is a new warning regarding a higher incidence of Guillain Barre cases in recipients of Johnson & Johnson vaccine, they’re probably feeling good about their decision.

Most of the people who are declining vaccination worked throughout the pandemic, some people have reactions, many have already had covid, including an eighty five year old man who recovered completely with no issues even though he is diabetic and has had a stroke previously. He’s back to work on the farm which his son operates.

Golfing Eagles has it right, co-morbidity factors need to be presented with the death rate numbers. Out of all the people I know who contracted covid, two died. One was an eighty year old woman with severe heart disease and the other was terminal. I’ve been vaccinated but we need to get off the backs of those who elect not to receive the shots. Influenza can be very deadly too for the compromised population and we don’t insist everyone get that shot.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

You know better than I deaths lag hospitalizations by several months.

Several "months"? No, days or a few weeks? Sure, I'll give you that...

Plus, thus article is from May. They state 600 deaths/day...

Recent numbers are in the low 200's...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by DALEPQ

We constantly hear the media refer to "Cases", but never hear how the "Cases" are defined. I believe that when "Cases" are mentioned it means a positive test, but no
mention as to what the severity factor is, just that we should be terrified of "Cases".
I know quite a few folks that are listed as "Cases" who have had Covid, and totally
recovered with having had relatively minor symptoms. Yes, I also know of others that have been really sick from Covid.
My point is that simply listing "Cases" just isn't the complete story, but keeping everyone
terrified seems to be the ongoing media narrative.

Funny, I don't recall ANYONE ever saying you should be terrified. Could you provide a link?

Maybe you mean rightfully concerned? Maybe they said we should take precautions? Maybe they mentioned if we don't take precautions a half-million people could die?

But terrified, I am not terrified, and I don't recall ever hearing that term from anyone - other than people that attempt to p[lay down the pandemmic.