[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Also not true. Take 5 minutes and look at the new Covid case chart, updated daily by The NY Times. You can look at the US in general, or by state, or by county. But as a state, Missouri did not “spike” last week…

Yeah, that’s another problem...who do you believe?

Kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article252728088.html


If you paste that link in your search/url bar you can read the article.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Yeah, that’s another problem...who do you believe?

Kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article252728088.html


If you paste that link in your search/url bar you can read the article.

I just read the article. Not once was the word spike used. They say that they have noticed an increase in positive tests. No indication of the percentage increase. Yesterday they had 690 new cases in the entire state. When dealing in small numbers a small aberration can indicate an increase. But nothing indicates a “spike”…

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Swoop

I just read the article. Not once was the word spike used. They say that they have noticed an increase in positive tests. No indication of the percentage increase. Yesterday they had 690 new cases in the entire state. When dealing in small numbers a small aberration can indicate an increase. But nothing indicates a “spike”…

I agree, the word "spike" appears to be a clickbait usage.

As near as I can tell reading a few articles, the intent is not to say there has been a LARGE number of cases, but that there has been a significant change in which virus is causing the current cases. Meaning, the Delta (or Delta+) variant is responsible for more than half of the recent cases, where previously it was responsible for only one or two cases.

So, while the use of the word "spike" is sensationalistic, the idea is that the Delta virus is rising. If it is not prevented by the vaccine, then we could see an exponential growth of it, which is what happened with the original variant before the measures were taken to slow it down.

That makes reporting difficult. If they say nothing and in 3 or 4 months we are seeing thousands of deaths per day again, then they screwed up, and if in a few months we don't see thousands of deaths, but it fizzles, then they are guilty of spreading panic.

A classic damned if you do and dammed if you don't.

The experts are taking a more cautious approach saying it's too soon to make predictions, but it is certainly something to be monitored.

[Altavia]

The nature of the beast (for areas with low vaccination rates) is to grow expotentially, double every few weeks.

Access Denied

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Swoop

I just read the article. Not once was the word spike used. They say that they have noticed an increase in positive tests. No indication of the percentage increase. Yesterday they had 690 new cases in the entire state. When dealing in small numbers a small aberration can indicate an increase. But nothing indicates a “spike”…

You’re funny, semantics may keep you from seeing the light, lol.

If it makes you more comfortable, the same paper has printed at 3:41 pm today: “Missouri added to Chicago travel advisory list amid Springfield COVID-19 spike”.

[Altavia]

Not spiking...

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

Not spiking...

Yeah, I can see their numbers have shot up and they say they’re spiking but we shouldn’t base our interpretation on their evidence, right?

[Boomer]

I cannot comprehend the fact that so many are unable to grasp the concept of risk vs. benefit.

News out of a hospital in Springfield, MO, said that 91% of ICU patients now are on ventilators and many of them are In their 20s, 30s, and 40s. They said that these stats are especially concerning because last year there were 40 to 50 % of ICU patients on vents there. The average age of death from Covid in MO recently reported as being in the 50s age group.

The longtime rationalization of blaming comorbidities for Covid deaths or difficult cases or serious after-effects does not seem to hold up with so many young cases.

It was said that in a few weeks, we could see more deaths in the hotspots because it takes a while.

I find these younger ages to be especially concerning. The virus is getting past their presumed invincibility. The virus needs a host and they are rolling out the welcome wagon.

Of course, I know there are some who have medical conditions that make the vaccine possibly dangerous for them. But for so many of these younger people, it looks to me like they are caught up in some kind of tribal group-think — and some are even succumbing to the planted lies about becoming magnetized or being tracked if they get the vaccine.

Generally, older people seem to be able to (mostly) separate their vaccinations from their political loyalties. I do not think that is the case though with the generations behind us. Many cannot see that they are being manipulated. They are so proud, so caught up in their defiance — until they’re not — when ignorance is no longer bliss.

What a mess we are in.

Boomer

Uh, oh, I keep getting caught up in these threads. I need to stop looking. Geez. I think it comes from being so adept at avoiding controversial topics in my social life that I get on here and can’t shut up.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I cannot comprehend the fact that so many are unable to grasp the concept of risk vs. benefit.

News out of a hospital in Springfield, MO, said that 91% of ICU patients now are on ventilators and many of them are In their 20s, 30s, and 40s. They said that these stats are especially concerning because last year there were 40 to 50 % of ICU patients on vents there. The average age of death from Covid in MO recently was been reported as being in the 50s age group.

The longtime rationalization of blaming comorbidities for Covid deaths or difficult cases or serious after-effects does not seem to hold up with so many young cases.

It was said that in a few weeks, we could see more deaths in the hotspots because it takes a while.

I find these younger ages to be especially concerning. The virus is getting past their presumed invincibility. The virus needs a host and they are rolling out the welcome wagon.

Of course, I know there are some who have medical conditions that make the vaccine possibly dangerous for them. But for so many of these younger people, it looks to me like they are caught up in some kind of tribal group-think — and some are even succumbing to the planted lies about becoming magnetized or being tracked if they get the vaccine.

Generally, older people seem to be able to (mostly) separate their vaccinations from their political loyalties. I do not think that is the case though with the generations behind us. Many cannot see that they are being manipulated. They are so proud, so caught up in their defiance — until they’re not — when ignorance is no longer bliss.

What a mess we are in.

Boomer

"Mess we are in"? This is the first time I've seen it indicated that politics is the reason people are refusing the vaccine. Which party would they be following since one party pushed the development and implementation of the the vaccinations and the other party continues to push for the administration of vaccines? Both political parties are involved with the vaccine.

But for some there is a general caution as to the danger of taking an unvetted medication, there are those who have already had covid and refuse to be vaccinated, there are those who cannot be vaccinated and then there are those who worked through the pandemic, had coworkers get covid and they didn't.

There was a news piece tonight that stated it may be necessary to revaccinate people because they don't know if the first series of shots will remain effective very long. Hang on, the ride will be interesting.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

The nature of the beast (for areas with low vaccination rates) is to grow expotentially, double every few weeks.

Access Denied

Yup, exponential growth is like, from 1 to 256 in 8 days, from 1 to 65,000 in 16 days. For the first week or two it looks harmless. Then bang.

[stanley]

The sky is falling............again

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Aces4

"Mess we are in"? This is the first time I've seen it indicated that politics is the reason people are refusing the vaccine. Which party would they be following since one party pushed the development and implementation of the the vaccinations and the other party continues to push for the administration of vaccines? Both political parties are involved with the vaccine.

But for some there is a general caution as to the danger of taking an unvetted medication, there are those who have already had covid and refuse to be vaccinated, there are those who cannot be vaccinated and then there are those who worked through the pandemic, had coworkers get covid and they didn't.

There was a news piece tonight that stated it may be necessary to revaccinate people because they don't know if the first series of shots will remain effective very long. Hang on, the ride will be interesting.

I understand that all the reasons are not the same. But I also know there is a big piece of it that is group-think, no individual thinking needed.

I know 2 people who have medical conditions that make risk outweigh benefit. But today, I spent some time with another person who battled Covid in January. It has left her with after-effects.

When we went to get our vaccines in February and March, I carried an epi-pen in my purse because Mr. B has had some allergic reactions — penicillin, sulfa drugs, and once a bee sting — not the same thing — I knew that — but I chose to minimize risk. It was all so new and I was worried. But we chose potential benefit over risk. (He was fine.)

I wrote a post in a recent thread about a big mouth talk radio personality in my hometown who changed his anti-vaxxing rants and started telling his loyalists to get the vaccine after seeing Covid for real, including losing a good friend to the virus. He has been back-pedaling like crazy lately. But whipping easy marks into a frenzy pays him handsomely so he jumped right in — at first.

(Anyway, Aces4, when you quoted me above, I had not edited for typos and had not added the thing at the bottom about how I know I need to stop engaging in these types of threads. Too predictable.)

The vaccine issue is multi-faceted. I addressed one facet in the post you quoted. But — it’s a facet — for sure.

Boomer

PS: In that thread about remembered posters, you said you miss Fumar and Muncle. Hey, that’s something we can definitely agree on. Smart guys — and each with a terrific sense of humor and a way with words. You must have been lurking for a while before you joined because Muncle left us in 2009, I think. He was my worthy opponent in debate — and we had a lot of fun with silly threads.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I understand that all the reasons are not the same. But I also know there is a big piece of it that is group-think, no individual thinking needed.

I know 2 people who have medical conditions that make risk outweigh benefit. But today, I spent some time with another person who battled Covid in January. It has left her with after-effects.

When we went to get our vaccines in February and March, I carried an epi-pen in my purse because Mr. B has had some allergic reactions — penicillin, sulfa drugs, and once a bee sting — not the same thing — I knew that — but I chose to minimize risk. It was all so new and I was worried. But we chose potential benefit over risk. (He was fine.)

I wrote a post in a recent thread about a big mouth talk radio personality in my hometown who changed his anti-vaxxing rants and started telling his loyalists to get the vaccine after seeing Covid for real, including losing a good friend to the virus. He has been back-pedaling like crazy lately. But whipping easy marks into a frenzy pays him handsomely so he jumped right in — at first.

(Anyway, Aces4, when you quoted me above, I had not edited for typos and had not added the thing at the bottom about how I know I need to stop engaging in these types of threads. Too predictable.)

Thie vaccine issue is multi-faceted. I addressed one facet in the post you quoted. But — it’s a facet — for sure.

Boomer

PS: In that thread about remembered posters, you said you miss Fumar and Muncle. Hey, that’s something we can definitely agree on. Smart guys — and each with a terrific sense of humor and a way with words. You must have been lurking for a while before you joined because Muncle left us in 2009, I think. He was my worthy opponent in debate — and we had a lot of fun with silly threads.

The vaccine debate is important because I fear mandatory vaccination laws will be put in place and I fear that far more than Covid-19.

There is far and away too much shrouding of statistics regarding deaths during the pandemic and we’ll never know the truth. Do I wish people would be covid vaccinated, yes. But how far do we want the reach of government in our health decisions? I have been vaccinated.

Regarding Fumar and Muncle, they were two fine posters and I miss their ruminations and style. Time moves quickly.

[thevillages2013]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?

Who is Covis and why is she spiking cases of something?

[Girlcopper]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The difference is that "not wearing seatbelts" isn't contagious. You not wearing a seatbelt is not going to hurt me, if you are in an accident. Indoor smoking is mostly banned in most parts of the country outside the privacy of your own home or vehicle. It's also banned in many outdoor public venues, parks and recreational areas nationwide. But I won't become a smoker just because you are a smoker. Smoking isn't contagious.

COVID is contagious, and you don't have to be "doing" anything to transmit it. Just get physically close enough to someone and breathe in their general direction, and if it's "their turn" to catch it, you will transmit it to them.

True. Anyone smoking and dying from lung cancer or not wearing a seat belt and dying in a car accident isnt my problem. Its your stupid choice and doesnt affect me in any way.
Your not getting vaccinated affects me, my family and friends since this is a contagious virus. It isnt my choice to grt the virus. You forced it on me. Big difference in comparisons