Do you like Medicare?

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  #61  
Old 08-05-2019, 12:29 PM
valuemkt valuemkt is offline
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How silly Mr Grump. There would be no incentive for anyone to join the healthcare field .. No or ill trained doctors, nurses, pahrmacists.. Why specialize in pharmaceutical science ? No drug invention .. maybe no continuance of the manufacture of drugs you depend on. Will the government "force" people to join the medical field ? Or shall we import people from outside the US that have graduated from third rate medical schools .. Sorry about that knee replacement or stint you need .. And you don;t think there would then be a secondary for pay marketplace for people wanting real care ?? Oh maybe the government will outlaw that too .. Come on man !
  #62  
Old 08-05-2019, 12:37 PM
susantabler@yahoo.com susantabler@yahoo.com is offline
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I have Medicare and United Healthcare Supplemental. I have been happy with this after paying the standard deductibles. I looked into Advantage but was unimpressed since you really need to be careful as to what you want as a premium . Medicare for all taking away private insurance would be disastrous. I think Medicare for all who want but have the luxury of a private insurance e is an option. Or if they fixed Obamacare. Just as an FYI. I am a registered Indeoendent so no political discussion from me
  #63  
Old 08-05-2019, 12:38 PM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is online now
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Originally Posted by valuemkt View Post
How silly Mr Grump. There would be no incentive for anyone to join the healthcare field .. No or ill trained doctors, nurses, pahrmacists.. Why specialize in pharmaceutical science ? No drug invention .. maybe no continuance of the manufacture of drugs you depend on. Will the government "force" people to join the medical field ? Or shall we import people from outside the US that have graduated from third rate medical schools .. Sorry about that knee replacement or stint you need .. And you don;t think there would then be a secondary for pay marketplace for people wanting real care ?? Oh maybe the government will outlaw that too .. Come on man !
I agree. Taking the profit motive away would be a disaster.
  #64  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:10 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Twiganne View Post
I too have VA healthcare as I am 100% disabled Veteran. While I agree the care is good the government red tape it takes to get a referral outside of the system is long monthly wait. I just went through it and if you don’t keep on top of it and make plenty of phone calls you soon get forgotten in the seas of others who need the same services. I had my top teeth removed April 9th. To date I still don’t have any dentures to eat with. Can you imagine having to not have teeth for over 4 months and eating soggy cereal. I just got an appointment to start the process but it took a call to DC Veterans Healthcare to get it up and moving. I will agree when you get care the appointments with the doctors are not rushed. They are not under insurance time restraints of having to see so many patients a day and schedule plenty of time with each patient to discuss concerns. Ok now imagine every citizen is offered the same type of care. Can you imagine? After working as an RN in healthcare for 20 years I can guarantee that there will not be enough doctors to see that many people. The care will decline. Also do people who have worked all of their lives for the benefit of having Medicare want to lumped into a group including every US citizens. Hospitals stay open not because profits they make from Medicare but from private insurance. Hospital administrators have already said if Medicare for all were implemented it would close their doors. What would we do without hospitals. Private insurance has worked fine for years. It was only when the government started getting involved in healthcare did we have problems that are massive. The Medicare and social security programs are already broke because our lovely congress had borrowed from it. I don’t think the cost of Medicare for all would even be feasible. Thoughts??? Just my two cents worth that is probably only worth a penny!
I am sorry to hear of your problems. I too have VA healthcare and am very happy with it.

It does sound like the areas you are experiencing the most issues are involved in having to go OUTSIDE the system, and I can see how that would be a night mare. The idea of medicare for all is there is no "outside the system" so there is no authorization, there is no complicated approval process etc.
  #65  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:13 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by retiredguy123 View Post
I agree. Taking the profit motive away would be a disaster.
It is pretty widely agreed that in 15 years or less the healthcare system we have (for profit) will bankrupt the country. The alternative is to just let everyone who can't pay die.

I would call that a "disaster".

I did say that no profit motive would be hard, and suggested a fixed regulated profit of 10% to 15%. Almost any company would be happy to have a guaranteed 15% profit with a guaranteed customer base of 300 million.

I expect more people would be interested than you think.
  #66  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:25 PM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is online now
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Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
It is pretty widely agreed that in 15 years or less the healthcare system we have (for profit) will bankrupt the country. The alternative is to just let everyone who can't pay die.

I would call that a "disaster".

I did say that no profit motive would be hard, and suggested a fixed regulated profit of 10% to 15%. Almost any company would be happy to have a guaranteed 15% profit with a guaranteed customer base of 300 million.

I expect more people would be interested than you think.
What you are suggesting is a "cost plus fee" Government contract. When I worked in the Federal Government, cost plus fee contracts were the most expensive ways to procure any product or service for the Government. The best and most economical way to get a product or service was to use a fair and competitive bidding process. If you think that Medicare billings and payments have a lot of fraud and overcharging in them now, just wait until you try to reimburse health providers for their actual costs plus 15 percent.

Last edited by retiredguy123; 08-05-2019 at 02:39 PM.
  #67  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:44 PM
SERENITY52 SERENITY52 is offline
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I despise having the government controlling my health care. I had private coverage through my school district which has become my secondary. Now i have medicare as my primary. What worse is that you have no chouce in the matter.
  #68  
Old 08-05-2019, 04:37 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by retiredguy123 View Post
What you are suggesting is a "cost plus fee" Government contract. When I worked in the Federal Government, cost plus fee contracts were the most expensive ways to procure any product or service for the Government. The best and most economical way to get a product or service was to use a fair and competitive bidding process. If you think that Medicare billings and payments have a lot of fraud and overcharging in them now, just wait until you try to reimburse health providers for their actual costs plus 15 percent.
Maybe, I am not the smartest person when it comes to the details. I am trying to show possible alternatives to what is not working and is going to bankrupt the country while a few companies get excessively rich.
  #69  
Old 08-05-2019, 04:41 PM
vzw1pr vzw1pr is offline
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I do not think Medicare for all would be the same program Seniors now enjoy.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:43 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by SERENITY52 View Post
I despise having the government controlling my health care. I had private coverage through my school district which has become my secondary. Now i have medicare as my primary. What worse is that you have no chouce in the matter.
What is worse are the 30 to 50 million people that can't afford to get medicine for their children. Or the 1/2 million families that have to file bankruptcy every year because their "good" coverage through their employee ends up not being so good.

The first case drives a person deeper into debt and desperation as they watch their children grow more and more unhealthy, the second case results in entire families that had "everything" and their kids headed for college and the good life, suddenly bankrupt and with their entire futures lost.

That is what I call worse.

You don't like not having a choice? There is debate on the right way to provide medicare for all - one is to eliminate choice and private insurance, I don't think that has a chance. I am against it. I think Medicare for all must provide basic medical care for all Americans, it should be treated as a right. Then if someone wants and can afford a supplemental private policy there is no reason they should not be able to buy it.
  #71  
Old 08-05-2019, 04:58 PM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is online now
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I just want to make 2 points. One, when you offer a Government option for health care to everyone, private employer paid insurance will no longer be an option because the employers will stop paying for their employees' insurance altogether. And, second, no one is talking about the fact that any Govenment provided health care will need to be paid for with borrowed money, because the Government is 22 trillion dollars in debt. Yes, individuals will not pay for health care directly, but our children and grandchildren will eventually have to pay off the debt or continue to pay enormous and increasing interest payments forever.
  #72  
Old 08-05-2019, 05:21 PM
Bucco Bucco is offline
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Originally Posted by retiredguy123 View Post
I just want to make 2 points. One, when you offer a Government option for health care to everyone, private employer paid insurance will no longer be an option because the employers will stop paying for their employees' insurance altogether. And, second, no one is talking about the fact that any Govenment provided health care will need to be paid for with borrowed money, because the Government is 22 trillion dollars in debt. Yes, individuals will not pay for health care directly, but our children and grandchildren will eventually have to pay off the debt or continue to pay enormous and increasing interest payments forever.
I think the ship has sailed on what we are doing to future generations.

You failed to add that the deficit is growing by leaps and bounds despite what we were told. Fiscally, we are out of control
  #73  
Old 08-05-2019, 05:22 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by retiredguy123 View Post
I just want to make 2 points. One, when you offer a Government option for health care to everyone, private employer paid insurance will no longer be an option because the employers will stop paying for their employees' insurance altogether. And, second, no one is talking about the fact that any Govenment provided health care will need to be paid for with borrowed money, because the Government is 22 trillion dollars in debt. Yes, individuals will not pay for health care directly, but our children and grandchildren will eventually have to pay off the debt or continue to pay enormous and increasing interest payments forever.
Removing employer healthcare is considered by many (me included) to be a good thing. In many cases (most) in the current system it acts as a lock to keep employees from seeking better employment elsewhere. It is NOT easy to find healthcare at a new employer and it often will not cover pre-existing conditions. And there is normally a gap when you move.

And no, borrowing of the plans being suggested all provide payment plans. The basic idea is everyone pays a higher "medicare" tax, which they are already paying, just higher. In return everyone gets medical health care for no charge - period. No deductibles, not excluded conditions, no fighting with the insurance company over if the doctor should have provided the test or service. No wondering if your insurance is going to cover something.

The estimates are that the higher medicare tax will be offset by the lower cost of living (all medical costs paid). So everyone will save money - except those that don't bother to have health insurance, and let you and me pay for their illness or injury by going to an emergency room.

Will it work? No one knows, we do know various forms of it work in numerous other countries (actually 17 of them that provide better cheaper healthcare then were do), and the result is better healthcare (measured by results) happier and healthier citizens, and the cost is about 1/2 to 1/3 of what we are paying with our current multi-payer for profit healthcare system.

Our healthcare is NOT keeping you healthy, in fact they hope you get sick - there is no profit in curing anyone of anything, there is only profit in treating illness. In a system where there is no profit, the motivation is to keep you healthy. I KNOW this works, because I use the VA healthcare, and that is exactly what I see.

When I was in medicare, I went to for profit healthcare "groups" and saw a different doctor every visit, and if I was lucky I saw them for 15 minutes. There was a constant feeling of they really wanted to get done with me and get to the next patient.

Now that I am in the VA, I always see my primary care provider, and they speak with me as long as I want to talk. They are obviously interested in my healthcare because they want to keep me healthy to save money - see, they are not making a profit, they are working on a limited budget, and it is in their best interest to make sure I stay healthy.

That is what single payer healthcare can be - at least I believe it can be.
  #74  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:13 PM
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kathyspear kathyspear is offline
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Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
No wondering if your insurance is going to cover something.
Seriously? Do you think that when the govt takes over you will be able to get any treatment or procedure or medication that your doctor wants you to have? Medicare doesn't do that now. (i.e. They pay for the cheap single-vision lenses after cataract surgery, not the more expensive multi-focal ones I got.) Medicaid/MediCal doesn't do that now. They have a list of drugs that you can have. If your drug is on the list, great. If it is not, oh, well ...

I know insurance companies don't pay for everything either, because (unlike the govt) they have to make money, whereas the govt just prints what it wants. But anybody who thinks universal healthcare will provide everything for everybody is not being realistic. Personally, I would rather fight with an insurance company over a treatment or a bill than fight with the govt, but that's just me.

kathy
  #75  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:23 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by kathyspear View Post
Seriously? Do you think that when the govt takes over you will be able to get any treatment or procedure or medication that your doctor wants you to have? Medicare doesn't do that now. (i.e. They pay for the cheap single-vision lenses after cataract surgery, not the more expensive multi-focal ones I got.) Medicaid/MediCal doesn't do that now. They have a list of drugs that you can have. If your drug is on the list, great. If it is not, oh, well ...

I know insurance companies don't pay for everything either, because (unlike the govt) they have to make money, whereas the govt just prints what it wants. But anybody who thinks universal healthcare will provide everything for everybody is not being realistic. Personally, I would rather fight with an insurance company over a treatment or a bill than fight with the govt, but that's just me.

kathy
I don't think, I know.Medicare is simply the government acting as a insurance company that pays for profit healthcare providers to provide healthcare. That system is doomed eventual for the reasons you mentioned and more.

In a single payer system, if modeled after the VA (which I think it should be) the for profit is removed, completely (currently the VA system is experiencing budget cuts and some services are provided for by for profit agencies (like glasses) and my experience with those services is that they suck. However, all of the services within the VA Healthcare system are excellent. When my doctor wants something I get it, and normally the same day.

Remember the VA is motivated to cure you and keep you well so you do not cost them more than necessary. For profit is motivated to treat you as long and as expensively as possible, so the insurance companies, and you constantly have to fight. They want to keep costs down and have entire departments dedicated to finding ways to NO PAY for your treatments. You on the other hand want to do what your doctor says, and have to fight with your insurance company to spend a little of the money you hang been paying them to spend.
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