You can lead a horse to water but


UNCLE!

Ariel,
You are one smart cookie. I like you and hope to meet you one day.

Oops, did I say cookie? No offense, VPL. :024:

Thanks, PTurner. I hope so too!

Me too. I want to meet you Ariel.

There are so many good ideas that get presented here and discussing people's views always adds insite to the person. Some just jump off the page with fairness and kindness and quickness.

i give not a flip one way or the other about that health alliance - i have my alliance with my physician, my god and my common sense...has worked well for me for more than 60 years!

No offense taken, Pturner. A "smart cookie" means the person (usually a woman) is clever in dealing with difficult situations. I would say, "it takes one to know one". How do you like that?

I would guess you are refering to her statement that, "value can be missed if delivery is uncomfortable." I understand it and agree with it. The problem is I often don't have the time to stop and think how to make the message more comfortable. What in particular would you like to see changed?

Well that was a general question posed to another person, but I for one wish what you would change about the delivery is to somehow not care so much and talk so much about what is happening outside your own choices of food. The Villages Inc...I doubt will change their marketing. People won't probably change their food choices due to what they read on TOTV and you won't change your attitude and ideas about what YOU think is healthy and unhealthy to do, eat and choose.

People who know how to interact with others successfully and sometimes teach them something and change their minds usually give "I messages". This is what I think and avoid being critical of another's views.

But first we have to entertain the idea that we could be wrong in some of our ideas. And you have to entertain the idea that you could be wrong in some of your ideas.

The last one to turn out the lights wins I guess in this argument.

Yes, I know. But someone has been dumping refined sugar, white refined flour and ice cream in the water. Horses aren't dumb; they want fresh (pure) water.

Village PL - just a question. Have you ever considered asking the Daily Sun to give you an interview so you can explain the values of healthy eating and some of the menus that you have set up for yourself - menus that would benefit TV for a healthier living community?

With TOTV you are only getting to a select few. With the Daily Sun you would get to a multitude of readers.

Z

Why is that? Is "food choice" like the choice of religion? Is it politically incorrect to voice one's opinion about food? If you can tell me what I should care about and talk about, would it be okay if I tell you what to care about and talk about?

I don't know where you get that from. The biggest change in my diet came about because a man on another website recommended a book to me. He knew that I was interested in health and nutrition. He worked in a library at the time and was always reading books about politics, economics, health etc.. So he sent me a message on the board asking me if I would read "The China Study" and give him my opinion of it. I said yes but thought to myself, "ho hum, just another health book". But when I finally got around to reading the book, I was amazed at the information it contained. And that's what caused me to change my diet to vegan. A few years before that, a young woman (on another website) told me about "The Okinawa Program" and that had a profound affect on my lifestyle too. So I don't know how you can be so sure that you know me well enough to know that I will never change.

To be continued:

Continued post:
 

I wish you would give me a few examples from this thread because I'm not sure what you mean. However, I will say this: You should experience what it feels like to have everyone gang up on you. When that happens to me, I tend to become more forceful or more direct than I otherwise would be.

I know I can be wrong, but you have to prove it to me before I accept it. This is one reason why I probably won't show up for the monthly meetings at Crispers. I feel it would only serve as an impediment to telling the truth. And I don't want to compromise the truth as I see it.

Once you, Ariel, and Pturner get together, for example, if you ever do, I believe none of you would ever disagree with the others. You would have to think about what it would do to the friendship.
As a result, intellectual integrity could be compromised.

you can't or wouldn't honestly believe that if you have read the posts here on totv beyond the current thread!

most of the posters here have found the way to respectfully agree to disagree - even in the political forum! ;)

many here have very strong opinions, such as yourself, and have found a way to be accepting of others who share equally strong opinions. for we all realize that without differing opinions we may never learn from others. and that learning has often led to even stronger friendships - without a compromise in intellectual integrity - because we simply accept that there are differing opinions, beliefs, ethics, etc that add to the wonderful diversity of the villages, totv and afternoon respite at crispers.

Thanks, caveman, I appreciate your confidence in me but I don't believe I could do it and, anyway, I don't think the newspaper would be interested in what I would have to say. If I were to be true to what I believe, I would trash all processed foods. And those foods would be the very foods they advertise and promote.

The Daily Sun publishes weekly health columns written by people they can count on not to cross a certain line. That's because the writers know if they cross that line, their columns could be canceled.

That's why there is chocolate and vanilla.:p

Yes, I use chocolate. I buy bakers chocolate that is located in the cooking isle at Walmart. It has no sugar or milk added. It's just pure chocolate. Some mornings when I make my oatmeal I put a little of it in the oatmeal and stir it around. It tastes good and provides lots of antioxidants. Yum!

I hesitate to mention this on the internet because if more people do it the price will go up. Oh well, I'll take my chances. :)

:wave:

I won't be joining the stampede to put unsweetened chocolate on oatmeal. :mornincoffee: But perhaps you'll start a new trend. :mmmm:

Where was the article on "green smoothies?" Wasn't it in the Sun?

Getting rid of all processed foods is easier to say than to do IMHO....there are huge numbers of people to feed in this world and it's up to individuals to regulate their dietary intake.

You and I disagree on a few points, ...in my estimation processed foods are not culprits. They are there to help provide sustenance to large numbers of people. Some processing helps food travel long distances, stay usable for longer periods. It was mentioned that today's modern family isn't the same as families from times gone by....now both parents may be working, not necessarily because they want to, but because they need to. Time is at a premium, and frankly, younger adults may not give a rat's a** about food...they just know they have to eat, they have to feed the kids and there is still SOOOO much to do, so.....it's a quick trip to the drive thru.

Tell me, have you always been this particular about what you ingest? Honestly? Over time, maybe others will decide that they aren't particularly satisfied with what they eat, they may want to follow whatever diet trend is in fashion and maybe that trend offers better food choices than what you feel are currently poor choices.

Not sure if you remember the movie "Sleeper" with Woodie Allen. Here's some lines from the movie that I always thought funny, but who knows.... ;)

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.

Can I skip the oatmeal? It doesn't like me....but I'll take the chocolate....ANYTIME... ;)

Thanks for the suggestion. I usually use fruit but I've been getting bored so I was looking for a change. I always have 85% chocolate in the house (not as healthy as bakers , but not as bitter) I'm looking forward to trying it in oatmeal

If it was, I missed it. But I did read something about green smoothies in a book. It was written by a woman who likes consuming lots of leafy greens but didn't want to do all the chewing. A special machine was needed to liquify the greens. But it's not for me because I don't believe in drinking my food. Chewing, in my opinion, is an important first step in the digestive process.

It won't happen in our life-time, if ever. I'm not worrying about the whole world. I basically just try to do what I think is right for myself and then try to set a good example for others.

A good example would be Twinkies. A freighter full of Twinkies could travel around the world 25 times and still be "edible". So they say; I've never tried it.


We all make mistakes along the way. But parents who are busy working, etc., don't have to bring home donuts, soft drinks and potato chips. A glass of water from the tap doesn't take long to prepare. And a whole potato can be popped into the microwave instead of eating potato chips. There are ways of doing things if people would just stop and think.

Well, it's difficult to say. I got interested at a young age but I didn't always practice a healthy diet. It's been a work in progress. It's been a long slow transition.

To be continued:

Continued post
 

I didn't see that one but I'm sure it was funny. I like Woodie Allen movies. I saw one of his movies not too long ago in The Villages. What was the title? "Paris"? Anyway, it took place in Paris and I thought it was great.

Once you, Ariel, and Pturner get together, for example, if you ever do, I believe none of you would ever disagree with the others. You would have to think about what it would do to the friendship.
As a result, intellectual integrity could be compromised.[/QUOTE]

Not fair. I don't know either Graciegirl or PTurner, however I'd like to meet them both. I'l like to meet you also VillagesPL. And I think I've stated here that I agree with much that you say. I like discussions; spirted ones are great. I have assumed, from what you say, that you are interested in spreading the word about good nutrition - perhaps I've misunderstood?

I had a supervisor once who was a very wise lady. The job we were doing depended a lot on influencing others, as opposed to having any power over them, to effect change. One of her favorite messages was "you can catch a whole lot more flies with honey than you can with vinegar".

I didn't say it WOULD compromise intellectual integrity, I said it MAY compromise intellectual integrity. I have no way of knowing for sure one way or the other. You're right, it's not fair. I said what I said because I had a bad experience on another message board.

I'm glad to hear that you like spirited discussions because that's what they usuall turn out to be. And, yes, I do like to spread the word about good nutrition.

I think if I had to choose between honey and vinegar, I would definitly choose the honey. Although sometimes I tend to feel as though people will miss the point if I say it too nicely. Sometimes the truth about health just isn't nice. For example, if I say that something causes or promotes cancer, there will likely be some who will not like hearing it. What can I do about that? Some things can't be sugar coated, in my opinion.

P.S. I'd like to meet you sometime too.

I'd like to know what you usually eat for breakfast (don't forget to include portion sizes).

Some days it's a bowl of Cheerios, never really measured, but I fill my bowl about half way. Pour on fat free Lactaid milk, put a thin slice of rye/pumpernickel swirl bread in the toaster. Top that with about two teaspoons of Nutella or peanut butter. Sometimes about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of sliced watermelon or half a small apple, or half an orange and maybe a small container of Greek yogurt ( about 4 ounces). Other days it might be eggs, two whites, one yolk. Every once in a while, a single slice of bacon with the eggs. Do have that thin slice of toast, too. If I'm going to be busy until after my body wants lunch, I'll have an egg, cereal, toast and yogurt.

May be more fat and protein than you eat, but It works for me. My body needs animal protein, I just don't get enough sustenance from a more plant based eating plan....believe me, I've tried it over the years.

:wave: Villages PL,
I apologize if my post offended you, as it was not my intent at all.

When I said no offense to you for saying she's a smart "cookie," I was trying to make a play on word, i.e., cookie usually brings to mind a sweet treat with um ... sugar and butter. You don't like sugar and butter. I meant it as a light-hearted joke. Apparently it did not come across that way. I truly am sorry.

p.s., Thanks for saying I'm a smart cookie, even though I apparently wasn't.

Smoking as a parallel
 

VillagesPL, I was thinking about how strongly you feel about good nutrition and the effects of bad nutrition on the body. Maybe one parallel would be smoking. People are free to choose to smoke, it's definitely not good for them, and most people understand and accept the consequences on their own body. But if you have had a loved one die from the effects of smoking, you may express your passion for non-smoking because of your wish to save lives. I am reminded of the new TV commercials that are pretty shocking about the impacts of smoking.
So in that context, I understand and appreciate your postings. Even if just a few people improve their diet, that will also improve the quality of their lives, and imho you will be the silent hero.

You are right, Quirky, and kind too. But I really do not think that people will change due to these posts, if anything it may turn folks off from really knowing more about healthy food choices because VillagesFl and Jimbo's choices are extreme. It is obvious that they think that they are helping all of us but what it is doing to me is turning me off.

I am watching someone close to me die of lung cancer, but I have not typed a letter about the dangers of smoking. My husband and I got really good results to our usual testing and six month check up yesterday but I don't feel I have a right to say how we eat in detail.

I feel that the freedom to choose for oneself is sacred and I don't feel that repeating, emphazising, sharing, continuing on the same subject, quoting nutritionists and starting threads on the same subjects is educating, promoting ideas or changing anyone's mind.

What it is for many of us is just annoying us. There is more than one way to skin a cat and there are many choices for a healthy life style and in my opinion not just one is right. Any improvement is good. But who is to say what is an improvement?

We are all grown ups here. I feel very sure that both VillagesFl and Jimbo are sincere and mean well. But I don't think that what is happening is what they hope will happen, that people will change to their way of eating and living.

Just my humble opinion.

Depends on the individual
 

Gracie, I really think it depends on the individual. I know that as a result of these exchanges, I have thought about nutrition more seriously, re-examined my weekly grocery shopping list, and am taking the topic a little more seriously. I see VillagesPL and Jimbo as people who care a lot, and find that touching. For me, the message is more important than the messenger or their style.

You have a point. I can't help being annoyed.

I do think that Villages PL has made many good points and is a sincere messenger for a healthy lifestyle.

However I agree with Gracie that there is something annoying about being told that my food choices will put me in an early grave. And I shouldn't call Emergency unless I'm eating nothing but twigs, sticks and weeds every day! :icon_wink:

I think JOY IN YOUR LIFE is the single most important aspect of a healthy life. Bountiful eating and drinking with friends can be a joyous occasion. Who are we to say it's wrong?

The results of a long term study that began in the early 1920s and just concluded about a year or two ago, stated that the single biggest personality trait for health and longevity is "conscientiousness". It makes sense when you think about it. Conscientiousness covers just about everything we do in life.

When the study started, the participants were about 11 years old and a few of them are still living. The study kept track of them as they progressed through life. Those who were the most conscientious were the most successful, healthy and long lived.

Thanks, very interesting. When I first moved to the Villages I was following the Zone philosophy, so I ate eggs for breakfast. I would buy a few dozen eggs at a time and I would hard-boil one dozen at a time in a large pan. I would eat 3 egg whites for breakfast and dispose of the yolks. Then I'd put the rest of the cooked eggs in the refrigerator for later use. I'm sure I had fruit, nuts and some kind of starch too. I might have had an egg white as part of a snack before or after a workout too.

The difference now is that I don't worry as much about getting enough protein. The Zone diet was known as being high in protein for those who were trying to lose weight. I'm not trying to lose weight so I can get by on less.

No, I don't think I was offended as much as I was feeling discouraged because I felt like too many people were piling on. But I wasn't quite sure, so it's nice of you to let me know what your intentions were. I feel a lot better now and I hope you do to. Let's not give it another thought.

Wow! That's very nice of you to say. I almost don't know what to say because I'm bad at taking compliments. I'm better at ducking tomatoes. :duck:

I know how bad smoking is because I started smoking when I was very young. At 12 years old I was just beginning to smoke. The kids in the neighborhood would all chip in to by a pack. If I remember correctly, a pack was about 20 cents. I would go to the corner grocery store and tell the owner I was buying them for my father (no one in my family smoked). I don't think it was against the law to sell to kids and I didn't know any better. If they had had a law like that inforced back then, it might have saved me from taking up smoking. So, today, I appreciate everything that's being done to help keep kids from smoking.

I quit smoking when I was 30.

The story of Blackberries is not complete:
 

About 3 or 4 days ago, I discovered that I had neglected an important part of the story about Blackberries. You know, the story in the Daily Sun with the recipe.

One of the best things about Blackberries is the very high vitamin C content. Two cups will give you 100% of your recommended daily allowance (RDA).
The recipe for Blackberry crisp calls for baking in the oven at 375 for 20 to 25 minutes, or until filling is bubbly.

Vitamin C is very sensitive to heat and light so there's no telling how much of it gets destroyed by baking.

The End.

I really don't think anyone eats pie or cobbler of any kind for health reasons.

I agree. However, being that this is the "Medical and Health Discussion" board, I assume that most people here are interested in health.

i certainly can agree with the concept of conscientiousness! i am absolutely conscientious whenever i am eating to live AND when i am living to eat! :)