Interesting read - Heart Surgeon Speaks Out On What Really Causes Heart Disease
 

Nail...on...head. :)

Opinions expressed here are by the general population in The Villages. There are no controlled scientific studies being discussed here. I would rather talk to my physician and get his view on the best options for me. If many of the current, recommended life style choices and medications don't work why are Americans living longer? Back in the "healthy olden days" people died in their 40's 50's and 60's. The average person retired from IBM was expected to collect his pension for three years or so. Social Security recipients were expected to die in their late sixties or early seventies. Why are there so many men and women living into their eighties and nineties today? Pet theories by health enthusiasts have been around for years. I would rather put my faith in the professional medical field. Medicine is science, not philosophy.

VPL

Listen to your body doesn't mean don't do the research and eat what you know is junk! From personal experience and from what I have read, as the body cleanses and the messages that the body sends are being heard, then the body being supported to do what it is designed to do (move toward health) will continue to send messages.

The problem seems to be that when the messages are ignored, and the person continues to eat "poorly", the body messages can't be "heard" and more physical damage gets done. The person gets used to a certain level of "discomfort" and it becomes "normal" and the body has to up the intensity of the message.

So the down side of detoxing and cleansing is that the body becomes more aware of the "toxins" that enter and the person develops more sensitive to "regular" food, which is the stuff that the SAD is made up of.

This is very simplistic and generalized but you get the idea. So when I say listen to your body, I am referring to the ability to notice when you feel a bit off and see it there might be a connection to the food you just ate. Of course there is a huge emotional piece and a historic/tribal/ genetic component that also contributes to our eating patterns etc. but that is another story!

I have left out so much that I am hesitant to post this and if anyone can elaborate on this theme I hope that they will chime in. The bottom line for me is that you are the only one who "hears" the messages your body sends, and you are the one who lives with the consequences of the choices that you make about what goes into your mouth.

BTW I just got a Magic Dessert Bullet, so that I could get my fruit in small quantities but in a very enjoyable form. I have not eaten much fruit lately as I am watching the amount of fruit sugar, but I know that the antioxidants are needed. So this has satisfied that part of me that wants and enjoys some fruit, particularly in this form. I'll just have to watch that I don't over do it as it could be easy to make more than I need.

LW888

The next time you have a cardiac ultrasound, ask what you EF is. It should be between 50 and 70. This shows the strength the heart has to push blood through it.

Exercise and your lucky genetics when it comes to cholesterol levels increases your chances of good cardiac health.

Cutting back on the serving size of protein and increasing your intake of fruits and vegetables will make you healthier as will decreasing fat.

If you cannot get your cholesterol level below 200, it is time to consider the use of statins.

I believe there is not one healthy diet solution for everyone.

Medical conditions, like diabetes, etc., prescriptions, like prednisone, and genetics can wreak havok with our body.
Yes, I agree a proper diet and exercise is important ... but some things unfortunately we cannot control.

Great topic by the way.

Yes, I did say that because I have read books on high protein high fat diets and I have actually tried a high protein diet. And I took the time to read information that was against veganism.

How many here, arguing against me, have read a book on veganism and actually tried it? How many have taken the time to read information that goes against high protein diets?

The reason I said it was absurd is because you were speaking in vague general terms. You assume everyone knows what you're talking about. Perhaps if you gave some concrete examples, it might make some sense.

When I talk about a healthy diet, it's not intended to suit everyone, especially the many special needs people who are already suffering from some disease. If it is intended for a special needs person, I will say so.

But your statement above leaves it all up to the imagination. What do you mean when you say, "Our bodies are all very different.? Different in what way? Give an example.

Give me an example of "foods [that] make you feel energetic, healthy and happy."

Well here is an answer. Over time, you have had a frequent poster on your frequent threads who is a microbiologist, one that is a pediatrician, one that is currently working for the federal government as an MD, seven R.N.s two chemistry teachers, one home economics teacher and one biology teacher, all retired. Not to mention the very well read people who are economists, lawyers, and those who have had stellar military careers and other successful people who are very well read.. We who live here come with varied backgrounds and that is why you get so much argument. You are reading not entirely current books from the library, while other sources give us information that is cutting edge and very up to date. (Such as valid scientific television shows.)Anyone can write a book on nutrition, in fact on anything.

Aside from that. I think most of us are not evangelistic about our diets. I think that if you are right about all you say, you will be here. all alone, outliving all of us. I know you will attack that last sentence... being I meant that part in jest. It seems to be your mission to debate miniscule remarks about this subject.

I think it is akin to over selling. If it works, people will see you glowing with health, out on a dragon boat or running the multimedia paths or dancing at the squares and ask you...WHAT IS YOUR SECRET????

P.S. I have read The China Study.

When have you ever participated in one of these discussions about health? You only show up as a cheerleader for those who speak out against me. Is that a discussion?

First, I'd like to say I am not a medical person. I just read a lot. I have read books from The Paleo Diet to Mayim's Vegan Table. I don't have an agenda. I am just really interested in getting to the bottom of what's healthy for us to eat. I have read studies of healthy, long-living populations. Here's the conclusion I have come to: the healthiest groups of people eat mostly fresh, unprocessed food. Whether they eat meat or not, they eat lots of fruits and vegetables. Sugar and other simple carbs, like white flour, are a small part of the diet. To me, this means that The Cinnabon Diet is not a good idea, much as I would like it to be. How I apply this to my own life is to go to the Farmers' Markets in the Squares and spend with abandon. And I try not to beat myself up when I have a piece of apple pie.

I have participated. And if you call my support of some with whom you disagree being a "cheerleader", so be it. It's far more of a discussion than constant, close-minded proselytizing.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have a relative on my family tree who was born in 1850 and died in 1956. And my grandfather, who was born around 1875, lived to 97. My grandmother lived to 89 and had a sister who lived to 100. Part of the reason for a higher life expectancy is that infant mortality has been reduced. And another part of the reason might be because people are being propped up with medical interventions, which doesn't always make for a healthy life expectancy.

There have been many large controlled scientific studies but it's not easy to discuss them all here, especially due to the fact that no one seems interested enough to actually read them. If people would read them, then they could be discussed. The China Study, The Okinawa Program, The Seventh Day Adventist study, The Mediterranean Diet study, The ongoing AARP Health Study and The Nurses Health Study.

What diet do you support, other than drinking a lot of beer? Do you think having a big beer belly is healthy? Isn't that why you have a big chip on your shoulder?

Nice of you to answer for Polar Bear but you went of topic by making me the subject. You didn't say beans about the topic. If you actually read The China Study you should be able to do better than change the subject. By the way, if you read The China Study, do you have an "unhealthy fixation" on health as you often accuse me of having?

And as far as all the Bull about all the professionals you mentioned above, I say bring them on!!!! It would be a welcome relief!

They have been brought on, over and over they have all debated you, and you pay no attention to their views.

Polar Bear looks nothing like his avatar and does not drink a lot of beer. When we dined with the Bears, he took one glass of wine. Neither Mr. OR Mrs. Bear is overweight. In fact, Polar Bear is very tall and slender and could have been the center for the Celtics. Be nice!

The problem, as I see it, is that the average (overweight and sick) person isn't doing the research. And when they get sick, they don't read the message(s) correctly, they blame it on their genes.

You mentioned that you once tried the Atkins diet but stopped because it's only good for a short period of time to achieve weight loss. Does that mean you're not on a high protein high fat diet anymore? What's your diet like on a typical day?

Note: I have some information that says a high protein diet is not even good for short term weight loss.

Then their views couldn't have been worth very much if they gave up so easily. Some, if not most, of those that you mentioned have very little training in nutrition, other than to say not to eat a certain food if you're on this or that medication.

I don't think we need large scientific studies to know how to eat, when I've watched all 4 of my grandparents and each of their 9+ siblings live on meat, potatoes, gravy made from drippings, bacon and eggs fried in the fat, and whole milk live till they were over 80 and none had heart disease or cancer, except one who smoked like a chimney and clearly died of self-induced lung cancer, COPD and emphysema. My parents, ages 87 and 85 are alive and healthy on that same diet but making conscious efforts to maintain a healthy weight, neither too fat nor too skinny.

At the same time, other families living on the same diet had clearcut tendencies of earlier death due to heart disease and cancers. Genetics cannot be ignored. One thing I notice in the other families in my hometown is that many married people from the same nation/provincial areas they or their parents came from, maybe concentrating the recessive genes. My grandparents and great grandparents married immigrants from different nations (Germany, Scandinavia, Great Britain, etc.) and maybe the gene mixture helped.

Thread has veered from original discussion. Attacks directed at members are not discussion. Thread will be closed.

Moderator