[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Good points about statins. I have never recommended the widespread use of cholesterol lowering drugs. I believe in most cases your body will produce the cholesterol it needs and a healthy lifestyle will call for your liver to produce less than it would under conditions of an unhealthy lifestyle.
So the message is: Live a healthy lifestyle!

Easy enough if everyone could agree on exactly what a healthy lifestyle is.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

To find out what the main stream thinks of the Atkins diet do a yahoo search as follows: Atkins Facts - Expert Opinions

I've used the Atkins Diet on a number of occasions. It works and it actually made me feel pretty good. However after awhile it gets boring. At first it is fun, all the meat you care to eat. I did it with my Doctors Blessing. His only comment is don't stay on it for a long time.

I've come to the conclusion, my health is my problem. The best physician is the one that looks at me in the mirror every morning. Over the years there have been all kinds of statements from the medical profession on what you should or should not eat, what vitamins you should be taking, what medications they believe should be prescribed, etc, etc, etc. Some of it was correct and some of it was nonsense. If you pay attention to your body and what it is telling you, you can go a long way to being healthier. I can tell by the way I feel whether I've eaten something that was not particularly good for me, or eaten too much food, or too much fat, or too much sugar, or been a bit lazy about getting any exercise.

I used to think that any doctor was a good doctor, not any more. I ask questions, I do research on my own. In the end its your decision on what you should or should not do with your body and how you take care of it.

[lightworker888]

QUOTE=Steve9930;952469]I've used the Atkins Diet on a number of occasions. It works and it actually made me feel pretty good. However after awhile it gets boring. At first it is fun, all the meat you care to eat. I did it with my Doctors Blessing. His only comment is don't stay on it for a long time.

I've come to the conclusion, my health is my problem. The best physician is the one that looks at me in the mirror every morning. Over the years there have been all kinds of statements from the medical profession on what you should or should not eat, what vitamins you should be taking, what medications they believe should be prescribed, etc, etc, etc. Some of it was correct and some of it was nonsense. If you pay attention to your body and what it is telling you, you can go a long way to being healthier. I can tell by the way I feel whether I've eaten something that was not particularly good for me, or eaten too much food, or too much fat, or too much sugar, or been a bit lazy about getting any exercise.

I used to think that any doctor was a good doctor, not any more. I ask questions, I do research on my own. In the end its your decision on what you should or should not do with your body and how you take care of it.[/QUOTE]




Amen to that.You are the only one inside your body who can feel what is going on. Everyone would benefit from learning to listen to their body. It is talking to you all the time! You just need to pay attention and the more you pay atention the more messages you will understand. Enjoy the process!

LW888

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Easy enough if everyone could agree on exactly what a healthy lifestyle is.

Here's some information that might help to decide that question. I have a book at home with a copyright date of 1993. It's, "Food Your Miracle Medicine" by Jean Carper.

In this book she tells about a "new" theory of how LDL cholesterol becomes a problem, by Dr. Steinberg and others. It's a long complicated process so I have put it in my own words and shortened it to make it more understandable. It goes like this:

LDL cholesterol becomes oxidized by colliding with free radicals in the blood, thereby becoming "toxic oxidized LDL." Dr. Steinberg has stated that it's not how much LDL you have in your blood but how much of it becomes oxidized. Oxidized LDL is capable of clogging arteries.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: The way to fight this toxic transformation is by consuming foods rich in antioxidants. What foods are rich in antioxidants? Fresh fruits and a wide variety of non-starchy vegetables. Animal protein does not contain any antioxidants and neither does high calorie animal fat such as butter etc.

Animal Protein & Fat: A high protein, high fat diet can cause blood pH to become excessively acidic thereby causing inflammation. And inflamed arteries will promote coronary artery disease. "Acidity and inflammation go hand in hand." (From the book, "The Ultimate pH solution")

So you have the oxidation theory and the inflammation theory but I don't think they are opposed to each other. I think they both work together.

Questions: Does the high protein/fat diet ignore the fact that acidity causes inflammation? And does it also ignore the fact that a high protein/fat diet displaces many of the alkaline foods such as certain fruits and vegetables? I think it does and that's where it falls short, it's not comprehensive enough. It correctly complains about refined carbohydrates but does not acknowledge animal protein as having an acidic effect on the body.

Note We have been told that whole eggs (dietary cholesterol) don't raise your cholesterol, so go ahead and eat all the eggs you want. But we have not been told that eggs are acid forming in the body. And an overly acidic body will cause inflammation. And inflammation in turn can cause coronary artery disease. Perhaps a couple of poached or soft boiled eggs in the morning can be part of a healthy diet but should be balanced with large amounts of fresh fruits and non-starchy vegetables. It depends on the individual, family history etc.. Just beware that a high protein diet has its risks.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Here's some information that might help to decide that question. I have a book at home with a copyright date of 1993. It's, "Food Your Miracle Medicine" by Jean Carper.

In this book she tells about a "new" theory of how LDL cholesterol becomes a problem, by Dr. Steinberg and others. It's a long complicated process so I have put it in my own words and shortened it to make it more understandable. It goes like this:

LDL cholesterol becomes oxidized by colliding with free radicals in the blood, thereby becoming "toxic oxidized LDL." Dr. Steinberg has stated that it's not how much LDL you have in your blood but how much of it becomes oxidized. Oxidized LDL is capable of clogging arteries.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: The way to fight this toxic transformation is by consuming foods rich in antioxidants. What foods are rich in antioxidants? Fresh fruits and a wide variety of non-starchy vegetables. Animal protein does not contain any antioxidants and neither does high calorie animal fat such as butter etc.

Animal Protein & Fat: A high protein, high fat diet can cause blood pH to become excessively acidic thereby causing inflammation. And inflamed arteries will promote coronary artery disease. "Acidity and inflammation go hand in hand." (From the book, "The Ultimate pH solution")

So you have the oxidation theory and the inflammation theory but I don't think they are opposed to each other. I think they both work together.

Questions: Does the high protein/fat diet ignore the fact that acidity causes inflammation? And does it also ignore the fact that a high protein/fat diet displaces many of the alkaline foods such as certain fruits and vegetables? I think it does and that's where it falls short, it's not comprehensive enough. It correctly complains about refined carbohydrates but does not acknowledge animal protein as having an acidic effect on the body.

Note We have been told that whole eggs (dietary cholesterol) don't raise your cholesterol, so go ahead and eat all the eggs you want. But we have not been told that eggs are acid forming in the body. And an overly acidic body will cause inflammation. And inflammation in turn can cause coronary artery disease. Perhaps a couple of poached or soft boiled eggs in the morning can be part of a healthy diet but should be balanced with large amounts of fresh fruits and non-starchy vegetables. It depends on the individual, family history etc.. Just beware that a high protein diet has its risks.

My point exactly. We can never all agree on what is a healthy diet. Fruit raises you blood sugar level very rapidly causing your triglyceride levels to rise turning your blood into sludge. Also sugar is inflammatory as is gluten.

We can go back and forth on this forever as the doctors do. You feel that you have the answer and that's good for you. There a many experts in the field that feel very strongly that they have the answer and many of them disagree.

[Polar Bear]

///

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

We can go back and forth on this forever as the doctors do ....... There a many experts in the field that feel very strongly that they have the answer and many of them disagree.

I agree that there is no one right answer. Our bodies are all very different.
If you listen to your body, you can figure out which foods make you feel energetic, healthy and happy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As Lightworker posted:

"I used to think that any doctor was a good doctor, not any more. I ask questions, I do research on my own.
In the end its your decision on what you should or should not do with your body and how you take care of it
.... you are the one inside your body who can feel what is going on.
Everyone would benefit from learning to listen to their body. It is talking to you all the time!
You just need to pay attention, and the more you pay attention the more messages you will understand. "

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

My point exactly. We can never all agree on what is a healthy diet. Fruit raises you blood sugar level very rapidly causing your triglyceride levels to rise turning your blood into sludge. Also sugar is inflammatory as is gluten.

Is there any credible doctor saying that a high protein diet is not acidic and not potentially inflammatory? What doctors go back and forth on this?

We can go back and forth on this forever as the doctors do. You feel that you have the answer and that's good for you. There a many experts in the field that feel very strongly that they have the answer and many of them disagree.

Then, essentially, do you feel that the field of nutrition should be shut down? Should universities be offering degrees in nutrition if there's too much disagreement? I say there's plenty of agreement on the basics.

There's no harm done in going back and forth because it may be a learning experience. The problem is when some people shut out opposing views altogether by only reading the books that agree with the foods they like.

If you read the Glucose Revolution or any book similar to it, you will find that you can eat some fruit without raising your blood sugar too much. Of course some people may be sensitive to the sugar in fruit if they already have diabetes, especially type 1. But when we talk on this board about a good diet we are not talking about a diet that will suit every person who may already have one disease or another, that would be impossible.

Certainly the Okinawan elders have a reputation for being among the healthiest, longest lived people in the world, and they eat very little fruit. But they compensate by eating lots of vegetables, whole grains and very little animal protein.

Show me a study of a large population of people anywhere in the world that eats a diet high in animal protein and animal fat that enjoys excellent health and longevity. (Not a small group or tribe.) To my knowledge there's no such population of people.

You can't go back and forth if there's no "forth".

Anyway, I thought this board was for discussion. If not, why was this thread started?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I agree that there is no one right answer. Our bodies are all very different.
If you listen to your body, you can figure out which foods make you feel energetic, healthy and happy.

That's absurd. The average healthy person has most things in common with all other healthy people. For example, junk food promotes poor health. Where's the exception to that? Also, the average healthy (active) person requires a certain amount of protein and calories based on height and weight. Any variation would be minor. We are more alike than we are different.

As Lightworker posted:

"I used to think that any doctor was a good doctor, not any more. I ask questions, I do research on my own.
In the end its your decision on what you should or should not do with your body and how you take care of it
.... you are the one inside your body who can feel what is going on.
Everyone would benefit from learning to listen to their body. It is talking to you all the time!
You just need to pay attention, and the more you pay attention the more messages you will understand. "

Is that right? If so, let's hear some examples of it. I once talked to a woman who believed that and she said she listened to her body too. If she craved ice cream, she ate ice cream because she figured her body must need it. If she craved potato chips she ate potato chips, if she craved soda she drank soda.

Isn't that what the overweight and obese are already doing, listening to their body tell them they need more high calorie processed foods? And that makes up two thirds of the population. Boy, that's great advice....listen to your body.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

...The problem is when some people shut out opposing views altogether...

Did you really just say that?!?

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Anyway, I thought this board was for discussion. If not, why was this thread started?

Originally Posted by Villages PL

That's absurd. The average healthy person has most things in common with all other healthy people. Boy, that's great advice....listen to your body.

I agree with your post that this board is for discussion. That's why I find it strange that you are calling my ideas absurd.
Is it only your ideas that have validity and should be discussed?

You talked about one woman listening to her body and eating "junk food". That is your "proof" that a mind/body connection doesn't work. I think she was giving into cravings, not listening to her body. I'm not sure whether you have an opinion on meditation as a way of focusing on a mind/body connection. And because you find my ideas absurd, I don't think I'll explore the topic any further.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I agree with your post that this board is for discussion. That's why I find it strange that you are calling my ideas absurd.
Is it only your ideas that have validity and should be discussed...

Nail...on...head.

[Happydaz]

Opinions expressed here are by the general population in The Villages. There are no controlled scientific studies being discussed here. I would rather talk to my physician and get his view on the best options for me. If many of the current, recommended life style choices and medications don't work why are Americans living longer? Back in the "healthy olden days" people died in their 40's 50's and 60's. The average person retired from IBM was expected to collect his pension for three years or so. Social Security recipients were expected to die in their late sixties or early seventies. Why are there so many men and women living into their eighties and nineties today? Pet theories by health enthusiasts have been around for years. I would rather put my faith in the professional medical field. Medicine is science, not philosophy.

[lightworker888]

VPL

Listen to your body doesn't mean don't do the research and eat what you know is junk! From personal experience and from what I have read, as the body cleanses and the messages that the body sends are being heard, then the body being supported to do what it is designed to do (move toward health) will continue to send messages.

The problem seems to be that when the messages are ignored, and the person continues to eat "poorly", the body messages can't be "heard" and more physical damage gets done. The person gets used to a certain level of "discomfort" and it becomes "normal" and the body has to up the intensity of the message.

So the down side of detoxing and cleansing is that the body becomes more aware of the "toxins" that enter and the person develops more sensitive to "regular" food, which is the stuff that the SAD is made up of.

This is very simplistic and generalized but you get the idea. So when I say listen to your body, I am referring to the ability to notice when you feel a bit off and see it there might be a connection to the food you just ate. Of course there is a huge emotional piece and a historic/tribal/ genetic component that also contributes to our eating patterns etc. but that is another story!

I have left out so much that I am hesitant to post this and if anyone can elaborate on this theme I hope that they will chime in. The bottom line for me is that you are the only one who "hears" the messages your body sends, and you are the one who lives with the consequences of the choices that you make about what goes into your mouth.

BTW I just got a Magic Dessert Bullet, so that I could get my fruit in small quantities but in a very enjoyable form. I have not eaten much fruit lately as I am watching the amount of fruit sugar, but I know that the antioxidants are needed. So this has satisfied that part of me that wants and enjoys some fruit, particularly in this form. I'll just have to watch that I don't over do it as it could be easy to make more than I need.

LW888

[graciegirl]

The next time you have a cardiac ultrasound, ask what you EF is. It should be between 50 and 70. This shows the strength the heart has to push blood through it.

Exercise and your lucky genetics when it comes to cholesterol levels increases your chances of good cardiac health.

Cutting back on the serving size of protein and increasing your intake of fruits and vegetables will make you healthier as will decreasing fat.

If you cannot get your cholesterol level below 200, it is time to consider the use of statins.