[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by stanley

Ahh yes...Patrick Henry..........Love this part of that speech:

“Gentlemen may cry, ‘Peace, Peace,’ but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? ... Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"

Thank you for CONTRIBUTING knowledge by expanding to all of Patrick Henry's quote. It IS a classic in History that I learned about in my early impressionable youth. I believe that it was directed against the British overlords that controlled the Colonies. The British would have been an EXTERNAL source of control or terrorism in search of control of the colonies. Today, it seems that we have ONLY EXTERNAL terrorism in a SOFT form like bots and trolls that can only influence the US. Actual PHYSICAL TERRORISM TODAY is in an early embryo stage, but STILL dangerous - it is INTERNAL, from within. I worry and warn against that POTENTIAL, but INCREASINGLY dangerous problem. Someone famous once said that America can never be conquered from without - ONLY from WITHIN !

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

Personally, right now I'd feel safer in a room, boat or plane with 100% covid survivors than 100% vaccinated, because the fact is currently the rate of infection is "vastly different" when comparing breakthrough cases vs reinfections.

True that but you need to be careful. You're debating someone who, like Fauci, is apparently Mr. Science. He knows which experts are correct and which aren't.

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by lkagele

True that but you need to be careful. You're debating someone who, like Fauci, is apparently Mr. Science. He knows which experts are correct and which aren't.

Apparently doesn't know the difference between cases and hospitalizations.

Speaking of my good friend Tony Fauci, I've had dinner with him twice. Both times were at conferences in DC with 5000 people eating rubberized chicken.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

Apparently doesn't know the difference between cases and hospitalizations.

Speaking of my good friend Tony Fauci, I've had dinner with him twice. Both times were at conferences in DC with 5000 people eating rubberized chicken.

Yeah, that's right. I don't know the difference. Why don't you "educate" me?

You said it yourself---Israel had an early, rapid vaccination program. So now, put on your thinking cap (if you have one). What country, 9 months later, is likely to have a large segment of their population with waning immunity????
And think a bit further----in 4 months, where do you think the USA will be???? But for now, this REMAINS A PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED. Hopefully, once we start giving out large numbers of booster shots it will remain that way. (which is why we are studying Israel's experience)

PS: I'm sorry you had rubber chicken with 5,000 people. The dinner at our table of 6 was delicious.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by lkagele

True that but you need to be careful. You're debating someone who, like Fauci, is apparently Mr. Science. He knows which experts are correct and which aren't.

1) That's Dr. Science to you
2) I wish I was like Tony Fauci
3) yes, I'm pretty sure I can sort out the "experts"

Thanks for the compliment

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

1) That's Dr. Science to you
2) I wish I was like Tony Fauci
3) yes, I'm pretty sure I can sort out the "experts"

Thanks for the compliment

And BTW, have you noticed that most of the healthcare professionals (experts) on this site are in agreement while the Dr. Google (amateur) naysayers are just babbling???

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Boomer

.........................And tighten up the unemployment checks so that those who lose their jobs over refusing vaccination (unless they have a medical reason) are not able to get unemployment on some kind of technicality. They need not think they will have the luxury of lardassing around on my dime.

Oh well, enough of this. I did not intend to get started this morning.

Boomer

Agree!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

Like Judge Judy says "you can't use outdated statistics"

Vastly different rates of contracting and spreading? Not since Delta arrived.

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

AAAS

Fully Vaccinated People Account for 1 in 4 COVID Cases Here, New CDC Report Says

Fully Vaccinated People Account for 1 in 4 COVID Cases Here, New CDC Report Says

I wouldn't call 25 to 50- percent breakthrough cases "vastly different"

Israel is like the canary in the coal mine and scientists/epidemiologists are watching what happens there closely. They were one of the first countries to fully vaccinate a large persentage of citizens, the Delta wave hit them earlier than USA, they documented the large percentage of breakthrough cases, and they are the first country to implement country wide booster shots. (which appear to be working quite well)

I am fully vaxed and recommend it to all at risk. But I find the vaccine shaming and call for vaccine passports ridiculous. First of all, there are probably over 100 million Americans with immunity from previous infection. Immunity that is stronger and more robust than that given by the vaccine. Should they be shamed and forced to vaccinate?

Personally, right now I'd feel safer in a room, boat or plane with 100% covid survivors than 100% vaccinated, because the fact is currently the rate of infection is "vastly different" when comparing breakthrough cases vs reinfections.

I will choose the room filled with fully vaccinated people, please! I read that link.....thank you! The CDC did say 25% breakthrough cases for JUST ONE large city - but, regardless, the CDC did say that it likely is UNDER-REPORTED. So, I will wait for other medical posters to agree or disagree - then I may go back to square 1 during that Alpha variant and go into partial-quarantine and stay 7ft away from people outside and not venture indoors unless necessary. I have some underlying conditions! I DO very much APPRECIATE your link and I will change my behavior accordingly AFTER I have done MORE RESEARCH.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And BTW, have you noticed that most of the healthcare professionals (experts) on this site are in agreement while the Dr. Google (amateur) naysayers are just babbling???

I agree and I believe the 97% of all US medical Doctors are fully vaccinated. And will probably take the BOOSTER 3rd shot. Yes, this IS (in the US) a Pandemic of the UNvaccinated! I like the logic of taking the time period of Israel's vaccination program and putting it into perspective - and USEFUL to us in the US. Good job, kudos! I come here for information, not controversy.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Debating an important issue is NEVER a waste of time. On a national Historic scale, I offer as an example the Abe Lincoln and Douglas ( or whomever) debates. Patrick Henry made an important quote in History to sway people toward his side of an issue. Debating is studied and promoted in Universities throughout the US and the world. NOT taking out an argument leads to violence as a way to resolve conflicts. That is what the profession of Marriage Counselor is ALL about. Conclusion......debate is as American as APPLE PIE!

Not questioning the legitimacy or importance of honest debate but the same 14 or 15 people spends hours spouting the same tired statements “for” or “against” anything to do with vaccinations or COVID studies. If you, and I don’t mean you personally, thinks that you’re going to change anyone’s mind on the other side of the argument, you’re kidding yourselves. There’s too much good in life and living here to waste time trying to convince others that simply don’t agree on a particular issue.

Ok, I’m off the soapbox now. I’m going to have a beer and take my wife to dinner. Have a wonderful evening to all.

[fishon]

I'm sorry multiple lockdowns didn't work.
I'm sorry your masks don't work.
I'm sorry your vaccines won't work unless you bully everyone to get your vaccinations.