Long Term Care Insurance - Opinions Wanted

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Old 10-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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Default Long Term Care Insurance - Opinions Wanted

I wasn't sure if I should post this in the Non Villages Discussion or the Medical and Health Discussion.

I have been doing a little research on long term care insurance, and I will be going to a presentation in November about it.

Would appreciate any feedback regarding LTC. Worth it or not? I haven't heard what the monthly rate is, I believe it varies on what kind of coverage one chooses to purchase.

I'm a little reluctant to shell out money for insurance I may never use. If I drop dead suddenly at age 78 and never need long term care, what happens to the money I shelled out for 21 years to pay the premiums? I think this money could be put to better use going into my current employer's 401K plan or into the rollover IRA I opened 2 year ago with the money from my former employer's 401K and pension plans.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:48 PM
zmarkp zmarkp is offline
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my mother used hers for the last three years of her life. each year the bills approached six figures and the ltc payout really helped. i have ltc and so does my sis so we won't become a burden on each other because let me tell you -- there are some really awful assisted living facilities out there and the good ones aren't cheap.

do your due diligence and pay a financial specialist to analyze your own particular situation. i'm sure you can google the subject for more perspective, too.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:15 PM
Waverunner Waverunner is offline
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My husband has it. I do not. I have heard that if your financial assets are very low or very high, you may have Medicaid available when your assets reach less than $2,000 or to use your own assets to pay for the care, (estimated that you would need a minimum of $2,000,000). You may get some similar information from the seminar you will be attending.

That said, there are very few insurance companies offering LTC. Some who use to offer it are no longer accepting new policies. Without new policies, the insurers projected expenses are increasing. When insurers are able to prove that they can't meet their obligations at current premium rates, they petition the states for increases in premiums or decreases in benefits (at the same premium level). That is what is happening with my husband's LTC insurer. He has elected to lower his benefit to keep his premium level.

Buying LTC insurance will only be as good as the insurer you choose...if they are still solvent, in business, and probably, still in the business of selling new LTC insurance. That is the 20 to 30 year gamble for many of us. After the seminar, please share your thoughts on TOTV.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:14 PM
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The 3 posts above seem to be referring to the "use it or loose it" type of Long Term Care Insurance (LTCI) coverage. Many of our parents have had this. Some of us do, too. You pay premiums monthly or annually. When the insured dies, all benefits end.

There is another option called Long Term Care Annuity (LTCA). You pay an initial premium up front. There are no ongoing premiums.

Most LTCI policies do not offer a cash withdrawal benefit, or benefits in the event that you don't require long term care during your lifetime. A LTCA may allow access cash value during your lifetime, even if you never require care. And, when the annuity contract matures, your contract's remaining cash value may be passed onto your beneficiaries.

The LTCA polices are not "perfect." As with a traditional annuity, there are fees. Some might even say "hidden fees."

I'm not advocating one or the other, simply pointing out some of the choices available.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:34 PM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is offline
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In my opinion, long term care insurance is a waste of money. If you go broke, Medicaid will kick in. In fact, about 90 percent of the people living in nursing homes are on Medicaid. If the long term care insurance prevents you from going broke, it will benefit your heirs, not you. So, if your heirs want your money, then let them pay for your long term care insurance premiums. Also, annuities of any kind are a ripoff. They only benefit the people who sell them. The upfront sales commission on a typical annuity is about 10 percent.
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by retiredguy123 View Post
In my opinion, long term care insurance is a waste of money. If you go broke, Medicaid will kick in. In fact, about 90 percent of the people living in nursing homes are on Medicaid. If the long term care insurance prevents you from going broke, it will benefit your heirs, not you. So, if your heirs want your money, then let them pay for your long term care insurance premiums. Also, annuities of any kind are a ripoff. They only benefit the people who sell them. The upfront sales commission on a typical annuity is about 10 percent.
Interesting replies...thank you to all.

My grandparents on my dad's side spent their last years in a nursing home in the mid-1980's. Grandpa spent 18 months in the nursing home, Grandma spent about 3 years. The combination of their nursing home expenses took almost all of the money they made by selling the family farm. My dad told me shortly after my grandmother passed away that if my grandmother had lived another 6 months, all of the money would have been gone, and she would have gone on Medicaid.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:56 AM
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If you don’t mind your premiums going up every year, by all means, go for it.

Rollie
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:17 AM
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65 % of nursing home residents are Medicaid recipients. It would be wise to check out non Medicaid and Medicaid facilities to see if there is a difference in the quality of care and conditions of each. LTCI might look good to you afterwards.

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Old 10-22-2017, 12:02 PM
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If you are single and the premiums would be a hardship, then it might not be worthwhile. If you ever need the services, you pay from your assets until they are exhausted then Medicaid kicks in.

For a couple LTC would make sense to preserve assets for the surviving/other spouse.

My employer offered LTC when I was in my late 40s...$100/month, inflation protection, and your premiums won’t go up...til they did 5 years later. I have chosen the self insured route.


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Old 10-22-2017, 04:03 PM
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We have had LTC insurance thru Mutual of Omaha for about 8 years. Our premiums have never gone up, but the amount of coverage we have has increased each year by 5%. Our policies also coordinate so if one of us needs the coverage but the other does not, that person can use the coverage of the other one as well as their own. Our financial adviser, who we started using after getting the LTC, thinks it's a great plan. He has no affiliation with Mutual of Omaha. Everyone's needs are different but we are very pleased with this plan. And it gives us peace of mind if nothing else. Almost every form of insurance is a waste of money if you don't have a claim. The question is are you solvent enough to afford long term care assistance on your own. Whether or not you will need it cannot be accurately predicted. PM me and I can share more details if you would like.

B.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:14 PM
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It rally depends on your SWAN requirements (Sleep Well at Night). You have medical insurance you hope covers you adequately. Same with Car insurance and Homeowners. I don;t know of anyone who makes sure they get their moneys worth using any of them. Some people have pensions, and along with social security use that as their "bond allocation" to protect against stock market variability. Others like annuities (I DO NOT). According to experts, there is a high likelihood that you will need Long Term Care somewhere during your lifetime. As an example, my dad had a stroke at 78, which left him unable to care for himself. He never went back home. He lived for 6 years in a very nice Assisted Living facility, and the last six months of his life in a Skilled Nursing Facility. I managed the money as tightly as I could, and picked up some little known veterans benefits for him at a crucial time. He had no idea about the money situation, but for the grace of God he passed at about the same time as the money was about to run out. he was a lifelong blue collar worker on the railroad, and managed to squirrel away enough money to take care of himself.

others aren't so lucky. While my wife and I are in much better shape than he was financially, medical costs and assisted living costs have skyrocketed. Often, in the case of couples, the first to need it puts an undue burden on the other. several years ago, when LTC was just coming out, we were both offered really good plans and really good rates way before we hit the "recommended" age of 60 for such insurance. We jumped at the chance, and have never missed the money from the premiums. We hope we never have to use it.. but, as part of our overall financial picture, we are able to Sleep Very Well at night ..
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:30 PM
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I don't live in The Villages - my Mom does, hence my membership on this site. That said, my wife and I (both 62) took out LTC from Mass Mutual through a broker here in NY this year. It ain't cheap, but NYS, oddly enough, gives you a 20% tax CREDIT on LTC premiums paid. Between the two of us, it comes out to about $7500 / year, but we each have a $220K pool of funds, and a third shared $220K pool that either of us can draw from if needed. It has built-in 3% inflation increases. And we get back $1500 at tax time from the credit. Wish other states would do the same, as we won't be staying in NY long after retirement age. Mass Mutual seemed to have the best bang for the buck with that 3rd pool of $$$ that others (like Mutual of Omaha) didn't offer.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyitsrick View Post
I don't live in The Villages - my Mom does, hence my membership on this site. That said, my wife and I (both 62) took out LTC from Mass Mutual through a broker here in NY this year. It ain't cheap, but NYS, oddly enough, gives you a 20% tax CREDIT on LTC premiums paid. Between the two of us, it comes out to about $7500 / year, but we each have a $220K pool of funds, and a third shared $220K pool that either of us can draw from if needed. It has built-in 3% inflation increases. And we get back $1500 at tax time from the credit. Wish other states would do the same, as we won't be staying in NY long after retirement age. Mass Mutual seemed to have the best bang for the buck with that 3rd pool of $$$ that others (like Mutual of Omaha) didn't offer.
To each his own, but that is a lot of money for something you may never use.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:34 PM
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I believe I did a lengthy reply to a similar question on TOTV. I will try to find it and repost my thoughts...I was an Assisted Living Administrator and I do have a business sponsorship on TOTV under another name where I do support for seniors.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:37 PM
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Long Term Care is not just for nursing homes. If you find you are in need of care which requires a few of the activities of daily living-eating (need meals), bathing, dressing, mobility-you may need assisted living and not nursing care. Or you may need a memory care community within an Assisted Living.

Assisted living is very expensive. I am a former Assisted Living Administrator. If you want a nice Assisted Living after having had a nice home and lifestyle, and depending on how much help with your daily living needs you have, you can be looking anywhere from mid $4,000 on up into the $6-$10,000 range.

A good long term care policy will cover in today's rates at least $6,000 a month with annual increases in the amount of coverage. You can usually expect 3-5% increase a year in Assisted Living.

And check to see if the policy will allow you to use the benefit to have in home help instead of moving out if that would suit your situation. Often you can hire your own person, even a relative, to provide care.

And please remember, if you are a veteran and need assisted living or nursing home, apply for the Aide and Attendant Benefit, but you have to have lower assets to be eligible.

Planning how you manage your assets early on can help you obtain Medicaid and Aide and Attendant when you need it.

Many assisted livings do a very high level of care which will keep you out of a nursing home unless you develop certain medical needs that the State regulations do not allow them to provide. Always ask what is the highest level of care they provide, including a memory care area within the assisted living. And please look beyond the beauty of the building and the chandelier. Ask how long the Administrator has been there; ask to see the State survey results of the past few years and also to see any investigation complaints and outcomes (also on the ACHA website); talk to residents and family members; ask the percentage of staff turnover; and eat quite a few meals there on different days including Sundays. You would be surprised to know that with all the money you pay, the food budget daily for a resident can be from under $5 to $7 a day. They hound the Administrator to keep the food budget low and to push the chef to be frugal.

Ask about transportation-how often, to where, how far will they drive you. And entertainment-how often are entertainers brought in, will they take people out to other events and outings.

How many nursing hours a day? And is it 7 days a week?

Be vigilant in choosing an assisted living. There are many in The Villages and there are some very nice ones on the outskirts. Do not be manipulated when they tell you at the ones in The Villages that you can access all the benefits of The Villages. Very few people in Assisted Living use Villages amenities, sometimes the healthier spouse living there may, but don't take it as a selling point, and they will try and sell and market to you. Take a look at those in and outside the parameters of The Villages.

And, do not think you cannot negotiate. There is always a "move in" fee. You can negotiate this down and often get rid of it all together if they need to get their occupancy numbers up. Assisted Living is all about occupancy. There are investors to satisfy as well as the management company who is pressured by the investors and owners. They need you more than you need them because there are so many to choose from. Sometimes there are incentives like a month or two free rent, so never move in without an incentive and a deal.

Hope this helps-I know you were asking about Long Term Care insurance but it is good to understand how you can spend it, where and what you get!
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