At the risk of being accused of merely stating anecdotal evidence, I know a person with this familial problem. Before the advent of statins, he had to eliminate all fat entirely from his diet. He was a runner, non-smoker, ate no fat, and still had a heart attack.

Thanks to Lipitor, he can now eat a more normal diet and enjoy his food.

[quote=dbussone;1068723]Wrong grasshopper, do your own research it's out there :boom:

Is a plant based diet extreme?
 

[QUOTE=jimbo2012;1068726]
As I said. Prove it...with real science. And I happen to like fried grasshoppers - especially covered with chocolate. I've done the research for years. And I'm not talking about anecdotal data involving a neighbor or friend. I mean hard data involving double blinded studies done by recognized scientists in true scientific journals. Go for it jimbo. What can you come up with.

Is a plant based diet extreme?
 

Your anecdotal data is at least as good as some of the wishful comments posted by others.

Doc - you use a wonderful logical approach to reach your conclusions.

Why would you feel anyone owes you an excuse or justification for anything they do?

Live your own life and leaves everyone else to their own desires is the best rule!

Well, there is no response to that, is there?

Every time someone disagrees for whatever reason you simply say that it's an excuse.

Funny, VPL used have the same response to everyone who disagreed and made a logical statement. Does Carl Esselstyn have training courses in how to respond to objections to his diet?

[quote=dbussone;1068730]Exactly. The medical community usually requires double blind studies of at least 1500 people to be conducted over a long period of time (25 years) before they will agree that a conclusion has been reached.

What we have in the case of diet doctors is a list of their successes. We never hear anything from people who have tried the diet and have failed for whatever reason. That is not scientific evidence.

Oh, I forgot. That's an excuse.

But back to the original question. Is a plant based diet extreme? A plant BASED diet, maybe not. A diet that excludes all meat, fish, nuts, oil of any kind, and dairy products in this day in this society is indeed extreme.

Now this is an entirely different question than can this diet work? Obviously, it can work as we have some people who have gone on it and have had wonderful results.

Will it work for everyone? That's a question that has not been answered yet. We haven't heard from people who have gone on it and have heart disease in spite of it. That doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means that we haven't heard from them.

Are there any negative affects of this diet? Some doctors and scientists have said that there is, but since no real long term scientific studies have been done, we don't know. People who talk about the dangers involved have about the same credibility as the proponents of the diet.

Is it a diet that most people are willing to go on even if it does work? I highly doubt that.

Is it a diet that most people will find reasonably easy to switch to? I highly doubt that as well.

But is it extreme is a pretty easy question. Just look around and see what the normal diet in our society consists of. Anything that varies from that to the degree that this diet does, is extreme.

If I recall correctly wasn't it you whom had a cardiac issue?

Wouldn't that qualify as anecdotal anyway?

Who had a cardiac issue. And anyway, so did my non-smoking friend who was on a total plant-based, no oil diet for years and ran every day.

Yes, it's anecdotal just as much as my friend's is. And happy to say you are both still here.:a040:

...

Yes, I have coronary artery disease and six stents.

What has that got to do with this conversation?

The question is, is a plant based diet extreme? I don't think that there's any question that it's extreme. That's not a comment on whether or not it works. It simply stating that when looking at the standard American diet, whether good or bad, this diet is extreme.

It's also a bit of a misnomer to call this a plant based diet. Plant based leaves room for other foods. In order to be plant based, a diet should be primarily, but not exclusively from plants. This diet is not simply plant based, but it is exclusively made up of plants. In fact it even excludes nuts which are plants.

There is also the question of whether this diet would help in all cases. There is no question that is has helped some people but it's still not known if will work for everyone.

It has been stated that coronary issues are not genetic. My grandfathers on both sides had serious cardiac conditions as did eight of my twelve uncles. My brother and both of my sisters have extremely high triglyceride and cholesterol levels. Several cousins also have conditions. If I'm not mistaken, many scientific studies show that coronary disease runs in families.

But again in answer to the original question, yes, this is an extreme diet. Maybe that's what's needed to eliminate coronary diseases but we don't know that for sure. But, it is extreme.

Yep.