Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1761996)

My question, if all those that want to get on with their lives are willing to infect the others or get infected by the others that want to get on with their lives, is it because they believe they can easily survive, don't believe any of the stats or believe it only happens to those with underlying conditions or are vulnerable? Just curious?

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1762298)

Hello, ficoguy,

You don’t miss a beat, do ya —

Oh well, I hope you will give my post here some thought.

As of yesterday morning, the reported numbers were, as follow:

Global:
Cases: 3,979,442
Deaths: 276,421

United States:
Cases: 1,291,100
Deaths: 77,489

Whether it be contract negotiations or ROI, I have always paid attention to percentages. Feel free to check my math. I did it in my head so it might be a little rough:

33% - United States Percentage of Global Cases
28% - United States Percentage of Global Deaths

I was appalled at what I was seeing in those numbers so I looked up the percentage of the US population relative to the population of the world:

4.5% - Yep. That’s us, our population, in relation to the whole world. I was beyond appalled at that stat.

Even though the virus could not have been stopped, it seems like it could have at least been headed off at the pass by responding to what was known in, ohhhh, let me see — January.

And why are tests being stonewalled? A numbers game?

Sassy Boomer

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1762298)

Hello, ficoguy,

You don’t miss a beat, do ya —

Oh well, I hope you will give my post here some thought.

As of yesterday morning, the reported numbers were, as follow:

Global:
Cases: 3,979,442
Deaths: 276,421

United States:
Cases: 1,291,100
Deaths: 77,489

Whether it be contract negotiations or ROI, I have always paid attention to percentages. Feel free to check my math. I did it in my head so it might be a little rough:

33% - United States Percentage of Global Cases
28% - United States Percentage of Global Deaths

I was appalled at what I was seeing in those numbers so I looked up the percentage of the US population relative to the population of the world:

4.5% - Yep. That’s us, our population, in relation to the whole world. I was beyond appalled at that stat.

Even though the virus could not have been stopped, it seems like it could have at least been headed off at the pass by responding to what was known in, ohhhh, let me see — January.

And why are tests being stonewalled? A numbers game?

Sassy Boomer

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1762300)

Global deaths all other causes: 153,400 PER DAY

Originally Posted by Wallyworld (Post 1762009)

Seriously, you believe everything you hear from Fauchi and Birks.

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1762443)

Why is it offered "... stay home if you are afraid..."?

So does it then follow if one goes out they are brave?
No! It just happens to be one opinion.

Some of us stay home because for us...... it makes sense in the current environment.

Has nothing to do with being afraid!

Originally Posted by Stnkydogs (Post 1762281)

There are multiple studies that support the effectiveness of social distancing. Logically if it prevents transmission it also prevents deaths from Covid. Irresponsible behavior will risk the lives of others, including the health care professionals you will no doubt seek out if you get Covid. Regarding the economic impact, it seems many Villages are financially healthy, with no impact on regular pension and SS deposits. Question is, how are you helping to support those less fortunate? Have you donated to the cause recently, have you generously (over) tipped delivery or take out persons, have you supported the local food bank? Everyone has a part to minimize the impact of the pandemic. Stop whining, we're all in this together. If you're bored, find a new activity that won't risk the health/welfare of others.

Originally Posted by shelley77 (Post 1762464)

Please show me one study that shows the effectiveness of social distancing. I have not been able to find one.

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1762443)

Why is it offered "... stay home if you are afraid..."?

So does it then follow if one goes out they are brave?
No! It just happens to be one opinion.

Some of us stay home because for us...... it makes sense in the current environment.

Has nothing to do with being afraid!

Originally Posted by Jacob85 (Post 1762241)

Sometimes there is no one else to do your shopping or go to the store so please people at least wear a mask. It’s the least you can do

Originally Posted by rrlavigne (Post 1762273)

The president and VP are now being tested daily. All those around them are also tested and are wearing masks. There's new strict virus protocol in the WH. This is the guy who put in place government guidelines then immediately posted praise for people protesting those same guidelines. Fact, not fake news. We debate sheltering vs the economy. (Sometimes in a very nasty way) We debate who to trust with the information we're getting. Well actions speak louder than words. Look what's going on in the WH.

Originally Posted by StephenG (Post 1762451)

Wow! I am very pleased with the level of discourse this has generated. A lot of very good opinions and ideas have been expressed in all aspects of this recovery situation. I respect everyone who took the time to express their thoughts and opinions in this matter. It’s obvious that we have a community of a lot of very good spirited people who just want to do what’s right. I am glad that as a community we are able to come together and have a respectful discourse in this matter. I think the most important thing at this point is that as changes are introduced and freedoms are re-substantiated we continue to have a positive and respectful discourse. Our goal must be to all join together and contribute to the recovery effort by means of communication and discourse and when necessary action. So for now God bless you all, And remember you are divinely protected within the hedge of his love.

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1762480)

And on a purely an anecdotal level, a couple of very high profile cases in the last few days, involving an environment that chose not to social distance or even wear masks, should make most people stop and think.

Originally Posted by rrlavigne (Post 1762273)

The president and VP are now being tested daily. All those around them are also tested and are wearing masks. There's new strict virus protocol in the WH. This is the guy who put in place government guidelines then immediately posted praise for people protesting those same guidelines. Fact, not fake news. We debate sheltering vs the economy. (Sometimes in a very nasty way) We debate who to trust with the information we're getting. Well actions speak louder than words. Look what's going on in the WH.

Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 1762749)

Before you opt for any vaccine, Google past vaccines developed by Bill Gates which resulted in death, sterility and a myriad of other medical issues. You have got to be an idiot to take ANY vaccine, including flu shots. The best thing we can do, if you are healthy and have no other issues, is to get back to work and our normal activities and let our bodies develop their own antibodies and immunity to Covid 19. It's called "herd immunity".

Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 1762749)

Before you opt for any vaccine, Google past vaccines developed by Bill Gates which resulted in death, sterility and a myriad of other medical issues. You have got to be an idiot to take ANY vaccine, including flu shots. The best thing we can do, if you are healthy and have no other issues, is to get back to work and our normal activities and let our bodies develop their own antibodies and immunity to Covid 19. It's called "herd immunity".

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1762756)

Bill Gates is CEO of Microsoft which has nothing to do with producing medical vaccines of any kind. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation funds many projects all over the world. I would have to guess that there is a conspiracy theory circling and you have accepted it as truth.

The way that our bodies develop antibodies and immunity is to survive the infection. When it is clearly happening that 80% of those who have died from Covid-19 are over 65 and that is the age of many people who live here in The Villages your opinion seems like a very dangerous one.

Most people use preventative measures to keep healthy and people over fifty are wise to get the shingles shot, all three kinds of pneumonia shot, and the seasonal flu shot. It is good to keep up with tetanus and also perhaps be revaccinated against pertussis, (whooping cough) if there is a new baby grandchild.

I am not a medical person but I am aware of current health trends simply because I love my family and want to protect them from harm.

Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 1762749)

Before you opt for any vaccine, Google past vaccines developed by Bill Gates which resulted in death, sterility and a myriad of other medical issues. You have got to be an idiot to take ANY vaccine, including flu shots. The best thing we can do, if you are healthy and have no other issues, is to get back to work and our normal activities and let our bodies develop their own antibodies and immunity to Covid 19. It's called "herd immunity".

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1762765)

Bill Gates is not CEO of Microsoft. He stepped down from that position 20 years ago in 2000. He was Chairman of the Board but stepped down from that position in 2014. He recently announced he is leaving the Microsoft Board all together.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1762773)

No, actually you have to be an idiot to believe that, follow that advice, or even post it in the first place.

Let's examine a few vaccines:

First of all, the only type of vaccine that you can get any form of the disease from are live attenuated vaccines. Most flu shots are inactive vaccines, ie: the worst you can get is a sore arm.
One of the first vaccines was developed by Edward Jenner in 1796 for smallpox---a disease that killed unknown millions with a 30% mortality rate and is NOW EXTINCT since 1975 due to vaccinations. By the way, the current smallpox vaccine is based on a related virus and you CANNOT get smallpox from it.
How many millions were killed by polio? The vaccine can give a form of polio to 2 in 1 million recipients, and that included household contacts of the vaccinated person.
Measles vaccine has an equally low incidence of causing the disease
Diphtheria, Pertussis and Rubella are inactive vaccines, tetanus is a toxoid.
Most of these vaccines are 85-95% effective
So, for every bad side effect of these vaccines, thousands of cases and deaths are prevented
Influenza kills about 44,000 Americans/year on average, that number would be less than 1/2 if everyone got their flu shot.

So PLEASE, ignore that idiotic post and get your vaccinations as recommended by THE EXPERTS AT THE CDC, and not some conspiracy theory nut job.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1762774)

I was not aware of that. I apologize. I have changed the wording to founder of Microsoft.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1762773)

No, actually you have to be an idiot to believe that, follow that advice, or even post it in the first place.

Let's examine a few vaccines:

First of all, the only type of vaccine that you can get any form of the disease from are live attenuated vaccines. Most flu shots are inactive vaccines, ie: the worst you can get is a sore arm.
One of the first vaccines was developed by Edward Jenner in 1796 for smallpox---a disease that killed unknown millions with a 30% mortality rate and is NOW EXTINCT since 1975 due to vaccinations. By the way, the current smallpox vaccine is based on a related virus and you CANNOT get smallpox from it.
How many millions were killed by polio? The vaccine can give a form of polio to 2 in 1 million recipients, and that included household contacts of the vaccinated person.
Measles vaccine has an equally low incidence of causing the disease
Diphtheria, Pertussis and Rubella are inactive vaccines, tetanus is a toxoid.
Most of these vaccines are 85-95% effective
So, for every bad side effect of these vaccines, thousands of cases and deaths are prevented
Influenza kills about 44,000 Americans/year on average, that number would be less than 1/2 if everyone got their flu shot.

So PLEASE, ignore that idiotic post and get your vaccinations as recommended by THE EXPERTS AT THE CDC, and not some conspiracy theory nut job.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1763009)

How do you figure that the number of flu deaths would reduce by 50% if everyone got the flu shot? First, the people currently getting flu shots are already typically the most vulnerable. Giving flu shots to young healthy people would have a minimal effect on the mortality rate. So since the flu shot is about 50% effective and a large number of at risk people already get it, how would inoculating everyone further reduce the number by an additional 50%?Lastly the flu shot for any given season is based on the best guess as to what strains will be most prevalent. When they guess wrong the numbers climb significantly.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1763265)

When it comes to medical expertise, pretty much so. What you call "pompous" is actually a reaction to the torrential outpouring of misinformation by non-professionals and those that googled something for 2 minutes and don't understand what they read. (NOT referring to you in particular)

You started this by challenging something that was a guesstimate based on percentages of the population that receive influenza vaccines every year. Your percentages are a bit different than mine. You feel this skews the population subsets that are subject to death by flu a lot, I didn't think it was all that much. But I built a large margin of error into that guesstimate based on a population of 330 million and an average of 44,000 deaths/year. So maybe it isn't 50%, it could be 45, or 40, or 35%.

So what, my point remains the same
Somebody posted that they would never get a vaccine for anything, I pointed out how nonsensical that was. That's why I get "pompous"

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1763280)

I am certainly not anti vaccine and I only addressed your off the cuff assumption of a 50% reduction. It was your response that it was laughable that I dared to question you that was pompous.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1762321)

NO. It is not the 5% with underlying conditions. NO. NO. NO. It is all people over 65. 80% of people who have died from Covid-19 are the elderly, folks over 65, and the older the higher the risk goes, whether or not they have underlying conditions, which most people do have. High blood pressure? Overweight? Do not exercise enough? I keep hearing people assume they are safe because they have no "underlying conditions" but if you are living here you are old enough to be in the high risk group.

Originally Posted by Heyitsrick (Post 1762309)

Thank you. This is what many - here and elsewhere - just won't respond to. It's like "yeah, 'they'll' figure that out when the right time comes". Sorry - it's almost assuredly not going to work that way. "But you just want to put us all at risk with your irresponsible behavior!!!" Right... We know about that irresponsibility. It's the kind of irresponsibility where you work for a living to raise and feed yourself and your family. That's selfish and irresponsible. Gotcha.

So when, then - specifically and explicitly - do you think it's going to be OK to get back to some semblance of living? Six months? A year? Eighteen months? Please...give an actual time vs. some generalized comment. No "whenever the politicos and epidemiologists say it's ok!" response. Where's our answer(s) on how the economy is going to come back? And why don't we - as a whole - care about that? It's astonishing to me. There's no "big picture" here any longer.

The damage done to the economy already is devastating. But hey, it's a good thing every company - particularly small companies and independent contractors and/or gig workers - have saved tons of money to carry them through this minor inconvenience. Oh wait - real life doesn't really work that way. These companies will perish. The employees will have to hope they can find new and commensurate jobs. Tough luck for them, though, right? At least we're retired! And no big deal, the Fed will just print trillions of dollars to prop things up.

What I find selfish is people who think nothing of preaching responsibility about what others do vis-à-vis their activities and the virus, yet seemingly don't think one wit about where we're all going to be at that yet undetermined time when people feel they can relax the hunkering down. You should try to envision that. It's not going to be pretty.

I know, I know...cue the "the economy doesn't matter if you're dead!" remarks. Add to that the "you don't have the right to infect me!" comments. Expected. But there are many daily activities that entail risks of sorts that we think nothing of. We engage in them because they are part of what encompasses living. Now, what we collectively engage in is fear.

Many of us don't do anything to keep our own bodies in shape - thereby increasing the odds that we'll succumb to some medical malady, virus-related or not. But hey, don't risk my life by potentially spreading that virus! If I want to be overweight, drink and smoke, that's my choice! Of course, your family and friends might think differently.

What there should be is a plan to help protect and sequester the elderly and otherwise vulnerable, while allowing younger people to go back to work. Keep this in place until there is that vaccine. It's a sensible - and reasonable - compromise.

Yeah, I'm just someone else worrying about that little thing called the economy. I just don't grasp what's really important. Who needs an economy, anyway? What am I thinking? We'll all be fine.