[jswirs]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I haven't seen any information on false claims by hospitals other than assertions such as these. Do YOU have any basis for your statements? Can you provide links to any significant number of documented cases? There have been something like 600,000 deaths associated with COVID. If even 1% of those were false claims then that would make 6,000 false claims; it shouldn't be too hard to provide links to a few hundred, right?

There may be a big difference in determining how to separate the death certificates between "false claims," "with" Covid, and "because of" Covid but in the end that's just a distraction. Whichever bin the death certificates fall into, there are still about 600,000 more death certificates associated with Covid and the number is climbing daily. Let's wait to argue about "primary cause" or "contributing factor" or "hanging chads" until after the daily death numbers drop to fewer than 100.
hey, 99% sounds better. If your electricity was 99% reliable that would mean you only had a total outage about four times per year or 100 hours per year. Nothing wrong with that, it's about 99% reliable. Four days without heat in the winter? That's okay, it's 99%
99% survival rate. The published numbers show that to be more like 98% in the US but reliable. 100 hours without power for the oxygen machine? That's okay, it's still 99% reliable.

A traffic light at a four-way intersection might have a three-minute cycle time; every three minutes it switches from red to green or from green to red. 20 times per hour, about 500 times per day. If the light was about 99% reliable then only five times per day would bot that five times every day the cross traffic had a green light too? That's 99% reliable.h directions have a green light at the same time. Normally, you see a green light and drive through the intersection without any thought. How would that change if you knew

I have had the flu and didn't like it. I wasn't hospitalized but I was uncomfortable enough that I don't want the symptoms again. I now get a flu shot along with many others. The CDC estimates that during the 2018-2019 flu season there were 35M cases with 34,200 deaths. There have been four million fewer documented Covid cases and 16 times more deaths. Maybe the question isn't why we would do all this for a virus that has a 99% survival rate (if that were even accurate); maybe the question should be why wouldn't we do this for a virus that is 16 times deadlier than the flu?

99% survival rate...Yes, I see your point...so...let's see: you mention electricity. Let's say 99% of people who have electricity in their house never get electrical shocks, but that leaves 1%, so maybe you should not use any electricity. You may get some sort of phantom voltage shock, it happens.

Next you bring up traffic...let's say 99% of folks driving in traffic don't get in an accident, but that still leaves 1%. The next time you are out on the road you could lose you life in a traffic accident. So maybe you better stop driving, you never know do you?

I also had the flu, once in my life, and I was very uncomfortable. I did not get the flu shot.

ALL OF LIFE is a risk. We start dying the moment we are born. Maybe the question should be: Why not just follow the crowd and do as we instructed, it's so much easier doing that than it is thinking for yourself.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jswirs

...

ALL OF LIFE is a risk. We start dying the moment we are born. Maybe the question should be: Why not just follow the crowd and do as we instructed, it's so much easier doing that than it is thinking for yourself.

I remember the kids in high school who fought against conforming to societal norms, particularly in the way they dressed. They weren't going to "follow the crowd," they were going to think for themselves, they were going to be themselves. You could tell who they were, they all dressed alike.

You are following one crowd or another. With Covid there seems to be the 1 in 50 crowd or the 1 in 1,000+ crowd. I think I'll choose the latter.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jswirs

And how many of the deaths from Covid are false claims by hospitals. If a person dies from injuries related to a car accident, and that same person test positive for Covid, the hospital writes or the death certificate, "Cause of death, Covid". There is a big difference in determining how many folks die "with" Covid, and how many die "because of" Covid.
All this for a virus that has about a 99% survival rate.

I can NOT believe that!!!!!!!!!!!

[Altavia]

J&J Vaccine Pause Creates 'Perfect Storm' For Misinformation : NPR

The Most Popular J&J Vaccine Story On Facebook? A Conspiracy Theorist Posted It

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I can NOT believe that!!!!!!!!!!!

Because it is not true these conspiracy theories were bandied about last fall.

Most experts believe the deaths are under counted.

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated - Scientific American

How Covid-19 Death Counts Morphed Into a Conspiracy Theory

Someday, our country will get back to truth.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I think this entire blood clot issue is a "man bites dog" thing.

It makes news and 1/2 the country is looking for excuses not to get a vaccination.

The CDC and WHO are terrified of appearing to make a mistake in light of the recent history of massive claims they are so awful. After all, if they aren't perfect then why trust anything they say.

So sad how much anger is out there.

[jswirs]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I can NOT believe that!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, do a search on Next door and you will find families distraught because this is what happened to their loved ones. Why in God's name would a family lie about such a thing?

[jswirs]

[QUOTE=Bucco;1930579]Because it is not true these conspiracy theories were bandied about last fall.

Most experts believe the deaths are under counted.

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated - Scientific American

How Covid-19 Death Counts Morphed Into a Conspiracy Theory

My understanding is that hospitals are granted additional funds for every patient that has a death caused by Covid. I don't know this for a fact, but what I do know is that the media and the powers that be are doing all they can to promote fear and paranoia. If anyone thinks that Big Pharma, hospitals, and the AMA don't lie, you have a lot to learn.

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=jswirs;1930622]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Because it is not true these conspiracy theories were bandied about last fall.

Most experts believe the deaths are under counted.

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated - Scientific American

How Covid-19 Death Counts Morphed Into a Conspiracy Theory

My understanding is that hospitals are granted additional funds for every patient that has a death caused by Covid. I don't know this for a fact, but what I do know is that the media and the powers that be are doing all they can to promote fear and paranoia. If anyone thinks that Big Pharma, hospitals, and the AMA don't lie, you have a lot to learn.

Of course people lie.

My problem is spreading false information to serve obvious purpose. If you don't care about disinformation being spread, then I worry about anyone who feels that way.

Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count - FactCheck.org

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Because it is not true these conspiracy theories were bandied about last fall.

Most experts believe the deaths are under counted.

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated - Scientific American

How Covid-19 Death Counts Morphed Into a Conspiracy Theory

Someday, our country will get back to truth.

Then please explain why cases of "The Flu" are almost non-existent this year...

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Then please explain why cases of "The Flu" are almost non-existent this year...

Covid-19 Story Tip: Flu Cases Dramatically Low So Far This Season

[Bucco]

One of, and most important reason I post about misinformation and truth is the constant posting of plain out false conspiracy theories about everything, but sadly not excluding this virus and attempts to save lives.

FOR EXAMPLE.....

"CNN. ABC News. The New York Times. Fox News.

Those are the publishers of four of the five most popular Facebook posts of articles about the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine this week. They're ranked 2 to 5 in total interactions, according to data from the tracking tool CrowdTangle."

"The No. 1 posting, however, isn't from a news organization. Or a government official. Or a public health expert."

[SIZE="6"][SIZE="5"][B][SIZE="4"]"The most popular link on Facebook about the Johnson & Johnson news was shared by a conspiracy theorist and self-described "news analyst & hip-hop artist" named An0maly who thinks the pandemic is a cover for government control.

It's a stark example of what experts warn could be a coming deluge of false or misleading information related to the one-shot vaccine."

J&J Vaccine Pause Creates 'Perfect Storm' For Misinformation : NPR

While this poster has had problems in the past with TRUTH, Facebook will do nothing about this.......it is called " gray area misinformation"

"Experts call this sort of tactic gray area misinformation and said it can have the same impact on an audience as blatant falsehoods when it's being received without proper context or by people with preconceived ideas."

As a country we get greatly agitated by information being "edited" by platforms, even though they contain blatant lies and or untruths.

We better wake up and address this because tolerance for lying and liars is becoming normal........there is not negative to simply going on line and lying about anything.

This has caused a great chasm in our country and has to be addressed.

COVID is serious and for me, there is no reason or room for spreading lies or misinformation about the disease.

If you do not know the truth, do not post.....or just shut up. There are so many websites that peddle nothing but false information to satisfy whatever movement they endorse, and sadly there appears to be enough lazy, uninformed folks who will follow them to the end of the earth (hopefully not literally).

I find this problem in so many areas and we just seem to accept it.......to me, that signal of acceptance is a very bad omen.

You certainly hold your own family to the truth........why do you accept and endorse lying on so many important issues ?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bucco

One of, and most important reason I post about misinformation and truth is the constant posting of plain out false conspiracy theories about everything, but sadly not excluding this virus and attempts to save lives.

FOR EXAMPLE.....


... text of example removed to save space ...

While this poster has had problems in the past with TRUTH, Facebook will do nothing about this.......it is called " gray area misinformation"

"Experts call this sort of tactic gray area misinformation and said it can have the same impact on an audience as blatant falsehoods when it's being received without proper context or by people with preconceived ideas."

As a country we get greatly agitated by information being "edited" by platforms, even though they contain blatant lies and or untruths.

We better wake up and address this because tolerance for lying and liars is becoming normal........there is not negative to simply going on line and lying about anything.

This has caused a great chasm in our country and has to be addressed.

COVID is serious and for me, there is no reason or room for spreading lies or misinformation about the disease.

If you do not know the truth, do not post.....or just shut up. There are so many websites that peddle nothing but false information to satisfy whatever movement they endorse, and sadly there appears to be enough lazy, uninformed folks who will follow them to the end of the earth (hopefully not literally).

I find this problem in so many areas and we just seem to accept it.......to me, that signal of acceptance is a very bad omen.

You certainly hold your own family to the truth........why do you accept and endorse lying on so many important issues ?

I accept "lying" today because I want to have a voice tomorrow when I disagree with the "truth." Or put another way, who decides what "truth" is? I feel we need to encourage and rely upon critical thinking rather than censorship. I also feel we really have to come to a common understanding that facebook is not a reliable source of information.

"The earth is round" and "the earth revolves around the sun" are two truths that few will dispute, but there are some that will. Should we censor those who would say the earth is flat or should we let them have their voice? Give them their voice but then provide the other side to the argument.

Today the discussion is the seriousness of Covid and the effectiveness of the vaccines. While the majority agree, there are a significant number of deniers. But which is better, asking facebook to spoon feed people with the "real truth" or letting the deniers have their say and then providing the data that shows them to be wrong? To me, asking the reader to make the effort to consider both sides will help society in the future.

One more example: is the statement, "Trump was a good president," true or false? Who decides which is the correct answer? Should facebook remove any comments to the contrary?

It's easy to argue for the removal of misinformation when nearly everyone agrees on what misinformation looks like. it becomes less easy to agree when the topic is more controversial, especially if you find yourself in the minority. It is better for society if we allow all viewpoints and demand that the reader take the time to think about the subject rather than creating a Department of Truth that determines which truths are allowed to be presented.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Then please explain why cases of "The Flu" are almost non-existent this year...

Because of the precautions that are widespread for the COVID-19. It is an unintended side effect that those same precautions also reduce the number of flu cases.

Businesses are closed, people are socially distancing, people are wearing masks, people are not flying as much, and on and on. Not everyone but a serious number, which reduces the transmission of viruses.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I accept "lying" today because I want to have a voice tomorrow when I disagree with the "truth." Or put another way, who decides what "truth" is? I feel we need to encourage and rely upon critical thinking rather than censorship. I also feel we really have to come to a common understanding that facebook is not a reliable source of information.

"The earth is round" and "the earth revolves around the sun" are two truths that few will dispute, but there are some that will. Should we censor those who would say the earth is flat or should we let them have their voice? Give them their voice but then provide the other side to the argument.

Today the discussion is the seriousness of Covid and the effectiveness of the vaccines. While the majority agree, there are a significant number of deniers. But which is better, asking Facebook to spoon-feed people with the "real truth" or letting the deniers have their say and then providing the data that shows them to be wrong? To me, asking the reader to make the effort to consider both sides will help society in the future.

One more example: is the statement, "Trump was a good president," true or false? Who decides which is the correct answer? Should facebook remove any comments to the contrary?

It's easy to argue for the removal of misinformation when nearly everyone agrees on what misinformation looks like. it becomes less easy to agree when the topic is more controversial, especially if you find yourself in the minority. It is better for society if we allow all viewpoints and demand that the reader take the time to think about the subject rather than creating a Department of Truth that determines which truths are allowed to be presented.

Why do I have the right to say what the owners of Facebook, Twitter, or any other company can control what is on their company?

I guess I was under the mistaken opinion that capitalism and not socialism was what made America great - so, now we want the government to step in and tell companies how to operate.

hmm.