[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Why do I have the right to say what the owners of Facebook, Twitter, or any other company can control what is on their company?

I guess I was under the mistaken opinion that capitalism and not socialism was what made America great - so, now we want the government to step in and tell companies how to operate.

hmm.

It appears you are under the mistaken opinion that I was suggesting that the government step in and control anything. Quite the contrary, I do NOT want the government stepping in and determining what news is fit to print. At the same time, I don't want facebook or others determining what news is fit to print either.

The Section 230 debate and follow on rulings will determine how far facebook and others can go with moderating content on their platforms before they lose certain protections.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I accept "lying" today because I want to have a voice tomorrow when I disagree with the "truth." Or put another way, who decides what "truth" is? I feel we need to encourage and rely upon critical thinking rather than censorship. I also feel we really have to come to a common understanding that facebook is not a reliable source of information.

"The earth is round" and "the earth revolves around the sun" are two truths that few will dispute, but there are some that will. Should we censor those who would say the earth is flat or should we let them have their voice? Give them their voice but then provide the other side to the argument.

Today the discussion is the seriousness of Covid and the effectiveness of the vaccines. While the majority agree, there are a significant number of deniers. But which is better, asking facebook to spoon feed people with the "real truth" or letting the deniers have their say and then providing the data that shows them to be wrong? To me, asking the reader to make the effort to consider both sides will help society in the future.

One more example: is the statement, "Trump was a good president," true or false? Who decides which is the correct answer? Should facebook remove any comments to the contrary?

It's easy to argue for the removal of misinformation when nearly everyone agrees on what misinformation looks like. it becomes less easy to agree when the topic is more controversial, especially if you find yourself in the minority. It is better for society if we allow all viewpoints and demand that the reader take the time to think about the subject rather than creating a Department of Truth that determines which truths are allowed to be presented.

In my family, lying was a big tabu.....no justification for it.

Sticking with family analogy, i think we need responsible, honest adults in "the room"

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bucco

In my family, lying was a big tabu.....no justification for it.

Sticking with family analogy, i think we need responsible, honest adults in "the room"

Lying requires stating something that is opposite to the truth; who gets to decide what the truth is? Extending your family analogy, the question, "why?" is often answered, "because I said so." I am frightened by the idea of a centralized "mom" that establishes "truth" by the criteria, "because I said so."

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Lying requires stating something that is opposite to the truth; who gets to decide what the truth is? Extending your family analogy, the question, "why?" is often answered, "because I said so." I am frightened by the idea of a centralized "mom" that establishes "truth" by the criteria, "because I said so."

This will be my last post as you are twisting my meaning, and it appears that lying to some is connected to what they want to believe.

Truth is very easy.

Conspiracy theories rare usually easy....thus the term. Cannot, off the top of my head think of any conspiracy theories that have ever been proven to be true.

Your problem with recognizing truth is a problem.

Telling folks when facing serious illness that what they fear does not exist....that it is a conspiracy theory...that crosses all conceivable boundaries of civil discourse that I am aware of. I, me, believe that the promulgating of conspiracy theories is a demonstrative fear of the truth.

Or, as we are beginning to see, the lazy way out. Many of those who left Jamestown before the mass suicide have said exactly that....they knew they were being lied to but it was comfortable.

This is a serious disease. I find no humor, no wish to debate it.

It deserves truth and adherence to it.

And I lived in no fear growing up. I learned early to identify truth, and liars. And especially to be responsible for my actions and words

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bucco

This will be my last post as you are twisting my meaning, and it appears that lying to some is connected to what they want to believe.

Truth is very easy.

Conspiracy theories rare usually easy....thus the term. Cannot, off the top of my head think of any conspiracy theories that have ever been proven to be true.

Your problem with recognizing truth is a problem.

Telling folks when facing serious illness that what they fear does not exist....that it is a conspiracy theory...that crosses all conceivable boundaries of civil discourse that I am aware of. I, me, believe that the promulgating of conspiracy theories is a demonstrative fear of the truth.

Or, as we are beginning to see, the lazy way out. Many of those who left Jamestown before the mass suicide have said exactly that....they knew they were being lied to but it was comfortable.

This is a serious disease. I find no humor, no wish to debate it.

It deserves truth and adherence to it.

And I lived in no fear growing up. I learned early to identify truth, and liars. And especially to be responsible for my actions and words

Truth is easy when you close your mind to the possibility that there might be something you aren't aware of. I don't have a problem recognizing/accepting the truth, my problem is with those who are closed-minded and insist that theirs is the only truth.

Recent conspiracy theory: The vaccines are unsafe and will cause deaths, several countries have already paused the use of the AZ vaccine due to blood clots and deaths.

Recent truth: The AZ and J&J vaccines have been linked to a small number of cases of a type of blood clot that has resulted in some deaths. The US has paused use of the J&J vaccine while they investigate.

"This is a serious disease, if you catch it you will die." "This disease is nothing more than a strong flu, some people will die, just like the flu, but most will recover" Which statement is the truth and which should be rejected as misinformation?

(I know, that was your last post so you won't be responding but it is something to think about)

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by blueash

Sorry. Remember in math class how the teacher said to show all your work. I failed to do that. The 52 is not 52 million people, it is 52 weeks in a year. If you know the number of deaths in one week and you want to know, if that rate continues, how many deaths will there be in a year, you need to multiple the deaths by 52.

Example 5 people died in Smithville from gunshots last week where the population is one million. What is the yearly death rate from gunshots?

Answer If 5 people die every week then in one year 5 times 52 will die, or 260 deaths per million

The issue with the Covid vaccine clot number is that so far all the reports are in a one week time frame. I'd like to think that the vaccine only may present a very tiny risk of clots to a particular patient segment for a short time, but I don't have enough data to say that yet. The question in assessing whether the shot causes clots is whether the expected number of clots detected is any different than the expected number in an unvaccinated population, the background rate.

The announcement that the clots are only seen in one per million is accurate but all the cases appeared in a one week period. If new clots continue to form each and every week then you'd get 52 per million in a year. I was comparing that to the background rate of 13 per million per year which is the highest number I saw in my brief literature search.

If 13 per million people get clots a year, then the weekly rate is 1/52 of the yearly rate. In the gunshot example if I tell you that 260 per million die in a year, to get the weekly rate you have to divide the 260 by 52 to get 5 deaths per million per week. If 13 die in a year then 1/4 person dies per week. In the Covid vaccines the rate described is 1 per million doses in one week.

There are lots of wrong assumptions here I hope. I truly believe that if there is a causal relationship of the adenoviral vaccines [J & J and AZ] that there is likely a very brief period of risk and that it will not be ongoing. But until i have that data, like the gunshot situation, I can use a short term finding and extend it. See why I didn't show my work!

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I had not appreciated the rate of reporting aspect, so thanks for that understanding..

[jswirs]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I remember the kids in high school who fought against conforming to societal norms, particularly in the way they dressed. They weren't going to "follow the crowd," they were going to think for themselves, they were going to be themselves. You could tell who they were, they all dressed alike.

You are following one crowd or another. With Covid there seems to be the 1 in 50 crowd or the 1 in 1,000+ crowd. I think I'll choose the latter.

The only following I do is that which can be referred to as my own common sense.

[jswirs]

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

On Twitter, Dr. Stephanie Graff, director of Clinical Research at the Sarah Cannon Research Institute at HCA Midwest Health, shared an infographic placing the risk of blood clots from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine in context with other common causes of blood clots. The risk of blood clots from the AstraZeneca vaccine is lower than that from birth control pills and smoking, and COVID itself leads to high prevalence of blood clotting.

I've been reading post such as these for the past several months now, and I must say that I find most of the post regarding mask, vaccine, cruise ships, etc., unnecessary. Just keep it simple, if you want to wear a mask, help yourself, but please don't expect others to go out of their way to protect you. If that causes you fear, stay home.
If you want to get the vaccine, do so, and don't criticize others if they choose not to do so.
If a person is healthy, the chances of getting Covid and dying are very slim.
The in-fighting I see on these post is pathetic. If a person quotes a number, that number is challenged, if a person tries to help, that post is taken apart and examined under a microscope.
GOOD GRIEF, let it go and get over it. In the words of Paul McCartney, "LET IT BE".