[graciegirl]

When someone we know or know of dies suddenly or unexpectedly I think of suicide because it has happened to people that I know.

Access Denied

Suicide among doctors - Wikipedia

I was shocked and very surprised at the reaction of a few people when I broached the subject a few days ago.

One called me "sick". One called for removal of my post and that did happen. I believe that in this day and age, we all must be aware of severe depression around us. I am still trying to understand the reaction to my post.

Above all, I want you to know that I meant in no way to be insensitive or callous. None of us is immune to overwhelming sadness and hopelessness at times.

[Taltarzac725]

Thanks for posting that, graciegirl.

I had a brother-in-law who committed suicide in 2014 but he refused to believe anything was wrong with him when my brother and sister-in-law tried to get him help. He never said anything that could have triggered involuntary commitment because he was very smart.

More education about mental illness and access to practical information is quite important. And stuff to combat bullying of all kinds.

Psychiatry is still quite young as a science and there are many areas where it is more an art form.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When someone we know or know of dies suddenly or unexpectedly I think of suicide because it has happened to people that I know.

Access Denied

I was shocked and very surprised at the reaction of a few people when I broached the subject a few days ago.

One called me "sick". One called for removal of my post and that did happen. I believe that in this day and age, we all must be aware of severe depression around us. I am still trying to understand the reaction to my post.

Above all, I want you to know that I meant in no way to be insensitive or callous. None of us is immune to overwhelming sadness and hopelessness at times.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When someone we know or know of dies suddenly or unexpectedly I think of suicide because it has happened to people that I know.

Access Denied

Suicide among doctors - Wikipedia

I was shocked and very surprised at the reaction of a few people when I broached the subject a few days ago.

One called me "sick". One called for removal of my post and that did happen. I believe that in this day and age, we all must be aware of severe depression around us. I am still trying to understand the reaction to my post.

Above all, I want you to know that I meant in no way to be insensitive or callous. None of us is immune to overwhelming sadness and hopelessness at times.

Not an easy subject to talk about some times. Like many folks here, my family has had a suicide. I was very small at the time and never learned the reason for it.
There can be many reasons one may wish to take their life, many reasons like depression,sadness, etc. Those are things that we can, with time and help get over. Think Romeo and Juliet. Death that should never havhappened, even if it was fictional.
But, depending on one's beliefs, there may be reasons that to the individual make sense. Think a person told they have only a very short time to live being informed that if they move to a "hospital" setting their life could be extended for a short time longer but their quality of life will be miserable as they become a test/practice subject that will bankrupt the family. In this scenario some may choose to end their life before they can no longer make that choice for themselves.
I believe in death with dignity and the right to choose time, place and method of my departure. The ideas or thoughts end of life are as private and personal as one's relation with their God or Gods.

[CFrance]

But I don't think it's a good idea, when somebody asks how someone died, to propose it was suicide when there is absolutely no evidence. That's how rumors are started. Imagine if that got back to the family and it wasn't the cause at all.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by CFrance

But I don't think it's a good idea, when somebody asks how someone died, to propose it was suicide when there is absolutely no evidence. That's how rumors are started. Imagine if that got back to the family and it wasn't the cause at all.

You are right. I was wrong.

I was not thinking of that at all. I was at fault. I do not know him and had never heard of him. I was wrong.

I know that 20% of people in the U.S. are challenged by some form of mental illness, even if it is mild. We have got to make the subject of mental illness, depression and suicide more talkable.

[manaboutown]

GG, I truly cannot understand how or why you got a bee in your bonnet concerning suicides among physicians. Frankly, I found your remark in another thread concerning the untimely death of a loved local physician shockingly callous. Why are you in a snit and verbally jumping up and down about suicides among physicians?

It seems to me that closer to home for you might be the suicide rate among primary school teachers, especially those who teach kindergarten and first grade. The following is from the UK. I do not know the statistics for American primary school teachers.

"Three in four suicides among teaching professionals are primary and nursery school teachers, statistics show, amid warnings it is 'one of the most highly stressed occupations in the country.

The suicide rate among primary school teachers in England is nearly two times higher than the national average, figures have revealed.

Risk of suicide among primary and nursery school teachers was 42 per cent higher than patterns in the broader population of England during the period 2011 to 2015, according to data released by the Office of National Statistics (ONS)."

From: Primary school teachers''' suicide rate nearly double national average, figures reveal | The Independent | The Independent

This was a surprise to me.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

GG, I truly cannot understand how or why you got a bee in your bonnet concerning suicides among physicians. Frankly, I found your remark in another thread concerning the untimely death of a loved local physician shockingly callous. Why are you in a snit and verbally jumping up and down about suicides among physicians?

It seems to me that closer to home for you might be the suicide rate among primary school teachers, especially those who teach kindergarten and first grade. The following is from the UK. I do not know the statistics for American primary school teachers.

"Three in four suicides among teaching professionals are primary and nursery school teachers, statistics show, amid warnings it is 'one of the most highly stressed occupations in the country.

The suicide rate among primary school teachers in England is nearly two times higher than the national average, figures have revealed.

Risk of suicide among primary and nursery school teachers was 42 per cent higher than patterns in the broader population of England during the period 2011 to 2015, according to data released by the Office of National Statistics (ONS)."

From: Primary school teachers''' suicide rate nearly double national average, figures reveal | The Independent | The Independent

This was a surprise to me.

Someone asked about a Cardiologist who died suddenly at the age of 49.

Someone else said they saw him on the day he died.

I wondered if he committed suicide.

I didn't think that anyone would think it was callous. I was very wrong. They did. You did.

When I read of someone who is famous who dies suddenly, the first thing I think of is that person may have died from an overdose. That is how I think.

I did think sad thoughts. Of course the family is grieving his loss, no matter why he died. I don't have a "bee in my bonnet " about physicians dying of suicide. I was completely surprised to find that they do die from suicide at twice the rate as the general public.

I have dear friends who have lost family members through suicide. I am very aware of depression and I am very involved in a large group that are parents of special needs children. We are always aware of that possibility. They are facing a lifelong challenge that cannot not be altered, and sometimes depression sets in. We are always sensitive to their needs and those close will visit them and try to get them to talk and to know they are not alone. I do think of suicide, maybe more than most people. We all have crushing times in our lives, times when we face awful, unbearable emotional pain.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Not an easy subject to talk about some times. Like many folks here, my family has had a suicide. I was very small at the time and never learned the reason for it.
There can be many reasons one may wish to take their life, many reasons like depression,sadness, etc. Those are things that we can, with time and help get over. Think Romeo and Juliet. Death that should never havhappened, even if it was fictional.
But, depending on one's beliefs, there may be reasons that to the individual make sense. Think a person told they have only a very short time to live being informed that if they move to a "hospital" setting their life could be extended for a short time longer but their quality of life will be miserable as they become a test/practice subject that will bankrupt the family. In this scenario some may choose to end their life before they can no longer make that choice for themselves.
I believe in death with dignity and the right to choose time, place and method of my departure. The ideas or thoughts end of life are as private and personal as one's relation with their God or Gods.

Euthanasia is far different than suicide. Until you’ve witnessed the family devastation from suicide you haven’t seen hell on earth.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

GG, I truly cannot understand how or why you got a bee in your bonnet concerning suicides among physicians. Frankly, I found your remark in another thread concerning the untimely death of a loved local physician shockingly callous. Why are you in a snit and verbally jumping up and down about suicides among physicians?

It seems to me that closer to home for you might be the suicide rate among primary school teachers, especially those who teach kindergarten and first grade. The following is from the UK. I do not know the statistics for American primary school teachers.

"Three in four suicides among teaching professionals are primary and nursery school teachers, statistics show, amid warnings it is 'one of the most highly stressed occupations in the country.

The suicide rate among primary school teachers in England is nearly two times higher than the national average, figures have revealed.

Risk of suicide among primary and nursery school teachers was 42 per cent higher than patterns in the broader population of England during the period 2011 to 2015, according to data released by the Office of National Statistics (ONS)."

From: Primary school teachers''' suicide rate nearly double national average, figures reveal | The Independent | The Independent

This was a surprise to me.

I watched people fidget and cluck when suicide is mentioned because they don’t want the light to shine on that subject too brightly. It touchy and prickly and it happens. Families dealing with suicide shouldn’t be ignored and have their feelings pushed under the rug. It’s not a sin to mention and acknowledge it happens.

[GrumpyOldMan]

There are roughly 50,000 suicides every year, and while it is a very hard for the people left behind, I do personally feel it is closely relates to doctor assisted death.

If we can't talk about it, things won't change - people who need help won't get it.

I saw that same post when it came through and my first thought was also that it might have been suicide, but I didn't know the person, so I had nothing to contribute.

We have an obsession in this country that self "inflicted" death is wrong, and death in general should be fought off as long as possible, no matter what. This is slowly being eroded by the movement of many people searching for death with dignity. Doctors are learning that what used to be taught, that death is the enemy and should never be accepted, are now learning the lying to the patient (yes, they lie to patients that are dying) and telling them there is hope when there is none, is NOT right. Patients have a right to KNOW that they are dying, and to receive help they may need to deal with it.

There are certainly transitive conditions that can lead a person to consider dying, such as situational depression. And those can be helped.

In general considering death is considered a mental illness.

That is really sad, since we are all going to experience death at some point (most of us here are over half way there). Not being able to discuss death in a mature conversation with friends, family, doctors or counselors leaves many (most) people with only themselves to evaluate their options alone - afraid to say anything because of the potential of involuntary commitment. I personally believe this leads to many unnecessary suicides - people feel there is no one they can trust to talk to.

The VA healthcare system takes counseling very seriously and makes it readily available to everyone without questions or judgement. I have not had to use the services myself but it gives me peace of mind to know they are there if or when I might need them.

I certainly understand that comments about suicide can seem to be insensitive or callous to some, especially those that have recently lost someone to suicide. But we really need to get over the stigma that has been traditionally associated it and learn to openly discuss the topic.

Much like the stigma around mental health is just now becoming recognized as an illness and not a moral stigma, we need to be open and encourage people considering end of life to discuss it with whomever they feel comfortable. This is NOT a moral issue, it does not make one a bad person to think about it. It is something every one of us is going to face eventually. Some will have more time to make plans than others.

50,000 suicides per year.

And as someone above said, there are, to me, reasonable situations where I would prefer doctor assisted death over the alternative of long term pain/agony or TBI or any number of life altering conditions that I would find unacceptable at this point in MY life. And I want to be able to opening discuss this with my PCP (which I do and have) and wish that everyone had that option.

If there is anyone reading this that would like to discuss suicide and don't feel it is something they can discuss with family, friends or doctors, please contact me - a complete stranger, might be easier to talk with.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I watched people fidget and cluck when suicide is mentioned because they don’t want the light to shine on that subject too brightly. It touchy and prickly and it happens. Families dealing with suicide shouldn’t be ignored and have their feelings pushed under the rug. It’s not a sin to mention and acknowledge it happens.

Sadly, for some it IS a sin to commit suicide. That belief, in my opinion, leads to many suicides every year - a person raised there entire life believing that suicide is evil and a sin, begins thinking about it for whatever reason, and feels they can't talk to anyone, because it would be admitting they are sinners. Sigh...

[Kgcetm]

Some Villagers have become so dependent upon the Village Sun for up-to-date news of happenings in the Villages that they become a little squeamish when the realities of life seep into their little piece of heaven. We have our share of depression and our share of untimely death. Your post should not have been censored.

[ithos]

I had a friend die who I had not talked to in a couple of years. The cause of death was kept out of the newspapers and available government records. There are laws that prevent disclosure in some areas.

Some believe that protecting the reputation of the deceased is more important than other considerations.

I don't have an opinion other than the family's preferences should be respected indefinitely.

I am interested in what others think.

[xcaligirl]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When someone we know or know of dies suddenly or unexpectedly I think of suicide because it has happened to people that I know.

Access Denied

Suicide among doctors - Wikipedia

I was shocked and very surprised at the reaction of a few people when I broached the subject a few days ago.

One called me "sick". One called for removal of my post and that did happen. I believe that in this day and age, we all must be aware of severe depression around us. I am still trying to understand the reaction to my post.

Above all, I want you to know that I meant in no way to be insensitive or callous. None of us is immune to overwhelming sadness and hopelessness at times.

Obviously the ones who complained and thought you are insensitive, do not know you at all! I only know you from TOTV however I will never forget that you were the kindest person to me when I first joined and I've never forgotten that. I didn't see your post regarding suicide however I know a few people who have committed suicide and I always wonder 'what signs did I miss?'. And I always say, be careful of people who are the 'class clown' as it's normally he/she who is depressed and suicidal (Robin Will;iams). Whenever I see you post anything or respond to a post, I always read it. You are always positive and have great posts and feed back. Wish they were more people like you but we're very lucky to have you, the Gracie Girl!!

[allsport]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When someone we know or know of dies suddenly or unexpectedly I think of suicide because it has happened to people that I know.

Access Denied

Suicide among doctors - Wikipedia

I was shocked and very surprised at the reaction of a few people when I broached the subject a few days ago.

One called me "sick". One called for removal of my post and that did happen. I believe that in this day and age, we all must be aware of severe depression around us. I am still trying to understand the reaction to my post.

Above all, I want you to know that I meant in no way to be insensitive or callous. None of us is immune to overwhelming sadness and hopelessness at times.

I agree, depression is an illness much like cancer. We must not shove it under the rug and pretend it did not happen. Do we do that with lung cancer? No The reactions you got were awful in that the it made it look like suicide is a shameful thing. It is not, it is the result of untreated depression that overtakes the mind of the victim. Old time prejudices popped out from everywhere.