I will reverse your questions on you :

What do we do with people who are absolutely unable to take care of themselves? They had work houses in England back in the 1800s. Germany had gas chambers. The third world countries manage to leave their indigents dying in the road ............ Seriously, if you make a statement like yours you HAVE to have an acceptable answer.

This country of ours is a GREAT country built on Christian principles. We built this country on the backs of people who were expendable in their own countries. There is sufficient money in this country to take care of people who are truly in need. Unfortunately many of the richest people in this country would rather fund political parties than put their money to good use helping those less fortunate.

In my opinion, which is worth probably nothing, it comes down to lack of care for our fellow man who is less fortunate. Thank goodness for the Salvation Army and other such groups that do their Christian best to take care of people in need.

Nailed it!! :boom:

:BigApplause:..:BigApplause:..:BigApplause:

While there will always be those anecdotal stories of... "I have a friend from Canada who had problems with Canadian health care"...of the thousands of Canadians I have known or talked to in my life, the overwhelming majority (just a guess, but probably around 80%)...feel the exact same way as yourself. :thumbup:


My observations seem to be backed up by actual facts.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

The cost of administration of the U.S. health care industry is the main reason we pay more than any other developed country and rank near or at the bottom for quality of care. Our system pays insurance companies to manage and perform as gatekeepers of care, which is a major burden to the system. Single payer would save most of this cost, but introduces a new gatekeeper, your federal government. I like to think I'm a libertarian who wants the government to leave me alone, but I have to admit, I love my Medicare Advantage plan.

Why is it when a legitimate question is raised about being responsible, people go to some extreme negative which is far outside of any human dignity today. The question is: "Who is responsible for your Life?" This nation was built on people that did not ask for a hand out. Who understood you get what you work for and no one owes you anything. Now after saying that we would not be much of a Christian based nation if we ignored those that need help, and we do not. People get Health Care when they need it, FREE. At least for them, but the rest of us pay that bill in one way or another. The questions I propose set the foundation to building a plan to fix the problem. Who is responsible for your life and how do we implement a system that drives that point, while providing a necessary service to the community?

Here are my suggestions to current system:

1) Health Insurance should be sold just like auto Insurance. No state line boundaries. Let competition loose to its fullest.
2) Tort Reform. Yes there times when Doctors and Hospital make mistakes but there should be limits.
3) Allow competition in the purchase of drugs. Buy from anywhere you get the best price and no laws to prevent it.
4) Risky behavior warrants a Higher Health Insurance Premium. You pay more for Auto Insurance if you are a bad driver. Why not more if your life style is unhealthy.
5) Limit Drug Company patents to 5 years.
6) Establish a nation wide catastrophic health Care Insurance paid for through a 1% Federal sales tax.
7) Repeal Medicare. Everyone gets their insurance on the open Market.
8) Allow corporations and small business to take the cost Health Care off the top of their taxes if they provide it for their employees.
9) Congress and the Senate have only the same choices as the general public.

Your reply gives me reason to believe that you are indeed a humanitarian. However I cannot agree with the sentence "Who is responsible for your Life?". I am of the opinion that there are huge numbers of people who have no understanding of what this means, either because they do not have the mental capacity or for a myriad of other reasons both mental and sociological.

I personally am in favor of the old fashioned idea of group homes where a person of diminished capacity could get a safe bed and a meal for a night and go out to get a day's labor the next day. Social programs seem to be fast disappearing, probably due to lack of money. When I look back on my life I think of all the programs that were available to help the REAL needy that are no longer funded. We had far less available money then and we seemed to do so much more with it.

You've completely missed the crux of my post(s). :oops:

It SHOULD be a right of American citizens...just like it is in all other first world countries.

I also appreciate you proving my point...about there being primarily two views on it. :ho:

Please read the constitution. Rights are given by God not Government. Rights cannot be denied by Government. There is no right to Health Care. Now is it a service society cares to provide? This is the debate. That right thing is not understood.

There is a larger problem and what you are seeing is the problem manifesting itself in different ways. Lack of services, increased abortions of convenience, violence, corruption in Business and Government, we versus they, greed, etc. We as a nation are turning from a bible based society to a secular based society.

I have...many times.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

There sure is a huge discrepancy between religions however...of what those 'God given rights' constitute.



You really believe that?

Then why were the "rights" of this country only originally given to those...who were white males?




Yet, just like the changes made to the COTUS due to the original mistakes/omissions mentioned above...Health Care to American citizens SHOULD be a 'right.'



I wholly disagree.

The 'right thing to do' is patently obvious...to those of us who care about the health of our fellow American citizens.

Let the pontification continue :)

You may have read the constitution but you did not get the points it makes. Rights in the constitution are not granted, they are stated. Governments do not grant rights. The constitution is one of the most profound documents I have ever read. It no doubt had the Almighty guiding these people. Health Care is not a right, its a service.

We are glad you come to visit. You are always welcome. I used to vacation up around Rice Lake. Loved the fishing there. Don't blame you at all for wanting to get out of the cold. I don't understand the 182 day maximum either.

While we all have compassion for the less fortunate, what will the result be if the government guarantees everything for everyone. The word “incentive” will no longer exist and neither will our prosperous country. After all why stop at health insurance, shouldn’t we all have the same rights to automobiles, restaurants, homes, inheritances, golf courses, concert tickets, and golf courses. This is the greatest country in the world because you can start with nothing and become a billionaire, although I personally believe as you achieve success you should provide a hand up for those that need it.

I think that was well said. Sometimes the compassion we show makes the problem worse. The question has always been: How to solve the problem while still maintaining the incentive to do better? Its human nature to take the path of least resistance. If its more lucrative not to strive for achieving your independence then who will be independent? Bottom line, life's not fair, get over it! Now get to work and try harder.

Single Payer System
 

Read all the posts but kept coming back to Barefoot’s who has really “hands on experience” with the Canadian health care system. In addition, I too have talked with several Canadian’s and they all speak highly of their medical care.

Medicare is a hybrid single payer health care program and even though it has its issues and problems seems to work pretty well for those of us age 65 and older.

Our health care system is complicated and costs millions more than it should. “Too many hands trying to get a piece of the pie” thus driving the costs higher and higher. Changes clearly need to be made and time will tell if a hybrid single payer system will emerge for those under 65 years of age.

The problem I have with your post is where you say there is sufficient money to take care of people. Our country is deeply in debt because we have borrowed and wasted too much money. Eventually, the country will become non-functional when people stop buyng our bonds. Most people just do not understand the amount of debt we have and the future consequences. Single payer health care would be a disaster to the debt.

:agree:

Single payer only comes close to working with small non diverse populations. The US pooulitaion is very large at 400 million plus, very diverse and extremely politically divided into many groups that agree on very little. Both Canada, Great Britain have single payer it’s a bloated, inefficient bureaucracy where no one cares since there is no incentive to care. It’s the government no one can be fired. Without profit or competition there is no reason for single payer to be competitive, effective, efficient or responsive to the needs of patients. it’s the government they answer to know one!
The VA is close to single payer, it doesn’t work, it’s inefiecent, because that’s what a bureaucracy is. Patients have been locked up in VA clinics because at 4 PM all the employee bolt for the door because it’s closing time, there is no inceintive to stay or see every patient. So occasionally patients are locked up when they close the doors on the building at 4PM.