Talk of The Villages Florida - Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm expected to reach herd immunty

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- - Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm expected to reach herd immunty (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/sweden-resisted-lockdown-its-capital-stockholm-expected-reach-herd-immunty-305729/)

Your evidence please.

But then the hospitals, nurses, doctors wouldn’t be able to handle it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOMOH (Post 1753558)

Is there any evidence that getting coronavirus DOES NOT provide immunity? Have people gotten it twice? And, I'm not understanding why this virus would be so different from all the others that DO provide immunity. What other viruses don't provide immunity?

What about the common cold?

Update....19,000 cases, 2,200 deaths, back to the drawing board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 1753963)

Update....19,000 cases, 2,200 deaths, back to the drawing board.

Death rate per million in Sweden still much lower than USA

Daily confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people - Our World in Data

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing (Post 1753711)

As of this morning, the number of virus deaths in Sweden is twice the number of deaths in Florida. Five times as many have died in Sweden as in Denmark, which closed things down. Ten times as many have died in Sweden as in Norway, it’s closest neighbor, which isolated even more effectively than did Denmark.

I guess we will find out if the Swedes quickly achieve herd immunity. I hope they do. I hope we do!

The business angle is a very serious question. Things are not going to simply restart and return to normal. Only after businesses try to restart and do it for a few months will we know the effect on the worldwide economy. For example, I have a close friend who is a director of a major European bank and based in New York City. The CEO says employees will no longer have to come to the office in New York if it makes them uncomfortable. If employees want to come to the office, they can come only one day a week. (My friend says no way she is going back to the New York office—she’ll work from home.) Conferences in person will no longer be allowed. Flying to meet with clients will no longer be allowed. How will that affect the country? Well, for a few things, just for this bank, several thousand business-class flights won’t be made—every week. A thousand nights in expensive big city hotels will not be booked—every week. Several thousand meals in very expensive restaurants won’t be purchased—every week. This means tough times for airlines and thousands of airline employees, hotels and thousands of hotel employees, taxis and thousand of drivers, restaurants and thousands of employees. It means a huge drop in transportation and hotel and restaurant taxes that support many large cities with lots of business and tourism. My friend’s bank expects this to continue until vaccines are available and given to nearly everyone and until there are antiviral drugs developed and available. (And don’t expect new antiviral drugs to be cheap. Some are $12 per pill, but one recommended drug is $118,000 per weekly dose.)

So we may decide that Sweden did the right thing and saved its economy, while our panic destroyed ours. Would it be better to take the chance on two to ten times as many deaths? Tough question. Are you willing to lose your own life, your spouse’s, your son’s, your daughter’s, your grandchild’s?

First case of covid 19 in Florida Was March 2. Sweden's first case was January 24, so they are further along the curve.

In theory, the process followed in Sweden is ok.

The problems with the process followed in Sweden are complicated. Sweden, like most other European countries, depends heavily on tourism. Even if Sweden reaches the the herd immunity what happens to the tourists who arrive there? What happens if Swedish tourists come to the USA, or any other country? Will all of those tourists carry the virus back home?

Vaccines may never be available. There isn’t one for the common cold—another coronavirus—so why should we assume one will be forthcoming for COVID-19?

Witnessing people’s responses to this pandemic has been very intriguing. Liberals seem to want hard-line rules enforced while conservatives seem to want to maintain civil liberties and freedom of choice. Liberals have previously loved to point to Sweden as if they have superior, more learned systems of taxation, governance and healthcare EXCEPT regarding their no-lockdown handling of Coronavirus. Isn’t it a bit ironic?

Everyone will get infected. We don’t have immunity and we don’t have a vaccine. It’s really a question of when and how badly. Effective treatments are the best hope to help those who will get severely ill.

Somehow our original goal of “slowing the spread” has morphed into avoidance of infection indefinitely which is not possible.

Why aren’t the most important statistics routinely reported— especially in central Florida—the current utilization rate of hospital beds, intensive care beds, and ventilators. Not overwhelming our healthcare system is the goal we have all sacrificed to achieve. How are we doing? And these stats are less open to interpretation than are the statistics involving (cause of) deaths or even numbers of infections since some who died were not diagnosed and many who are diagnosed don’t require hospitalization. The most important thing everyone wants to know is whether help (healthcare capacity) is available if you need it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALadysMom (Post 1754127)

Vaccines may never be available. There isn’t one for the common cold—another coronavirus—so why should we assume one will be forthcoming for COVID-10.

Everyone will get infected. We don’t have immunity and we don’t have a vaccine. It’s really a question of when and how badly. Effective treatments are the best hope to help those who will get severely ill.

Somehow our original goal of “slowing the spread” has morphed into avoidance of infection indefinitely which is not possible.

Please do not despair!
Vaccine already working but need testing on different people and whether feasible to produce in very large quantities. Just google vaccine updates.

Sweden is not a perfect model. Someone came up with the clever idea of using the Open Table reservation system as a rough measure of social distancing. In the second week of March 2020, restaurant resos were down 40% in Stockholm from the same week one year earlier. The restaurants are open, but business is down and many are struggling to survive. The Swedish gov't did not require social distancing, but Swedes are social distancing nonetheless. The Swedish economy overall is not doing great. GDP for the year is estimated to decline 3.6% this year, according to the Swedish Finance ministry, which is worse than the U.S. If you think the Swedish approach to the crisis is a panacea, think again. Link - American Enterprise Inst.

Sweden’s coronavirus results don’t make the case for reopening the American economy | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1753291)

It doesn’t look like herd immunity is ever going to happen, just dead people. The WHO said there is no evidence at this time that antibodies prevent you from catching Covid-19 again.

My son is a doctor in Minneapolis. We were talking to him today as he was called off because with the suspension of all elective surgeries there are not enough patients n the hospitals to warrant all the docs who were scheduled. He did say that they will have to cancel their trip down here in June to celebrate our fiftieth anniversary because his practice has told them all there can be no travel in June. While I am disappointed, I am also glad that their "little Germ factories" Won't be bringing us the virus. When he tells us of all the people at the hospitals who are working extra hours I offer up prayers for them. Please join me in these prayers, it is more than just nurses. :pray:

This too shall pass

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 1753395)

And this too will pass!

Vaccine in a year or so......

I think the bottom line is that we don't want to "pass" with it. A vaccine in a year to 18 months will be too late for many people our ages.
:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear::ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOMOH (Post 1753558)

Many. You can start with the common cold (because there are thousands of strains) and HIV (because it exhibits antigenic mutagenicity and mimicry)

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1754219)

Many. You can start with the common cold (because there are thousands of strains) and HIV (because it exhibits antigenic mutagenicity and mimicry)

Thank you. I looked up both of them, and again my medical knowledge increased. It is so good to have two medical doctors as frequent posters on this forum.

For some reason I can say thank you by clicking on the bottom with a plus sign to some posters and some posts and others I cannot because there is no plus sign. Does anyone know how that works?