Your assessment he could not be more wrong is totally incorrect!

We are not straying from nature...just doing the smart, prudent thing to remain alive.

When one has a condition that could be life threatening life blood clots forming for any number of conditions, then medication to prevent the clots from forming and threatening ones life is the correct/smart thing to do....natural or not.

btk

PS Everytime I read your not so oblique message about doing what is natural it starts to get me warmer each time.....If my wife or I would have relied on natures balance to save the day one or both of us would not be here today. Very inappropriate commentary!!!!!!

Yes, we are in agreement. Once it has been established that you have developed heart disease, the smart thing to do is follow your doctor's advice.

However, if his statement about green vegetables was aimed at the average person, then he is just plain ignorant about green vegetables. If you say otherwise, show me the proof.

Here's what I had in mind when I said what I said. The part about "straying from nature" pertains to everything that happens over a lifetime, i.e., continuous long-term lifestyle habits. However, once that lifestyle is firmly in place and heart disease has been established, what other choice is there but to be under the care of a heart doctor? Especially if there's no desire, intention or ability to change those lifestyle habits.

Yes, exactly, in my post I said, "....vitamin K can interfere with some anticoagulant drugs."

Your link provided a lot of the same information that I found when I did my research. And it more or less proves the ignorance of any doctor who suggests that dark green vegetables are anything less than healthful for the average person.

You are once again wrong in your conclusion.
My first post was not an oration for the "average person" it was about my wife and I.

My second post clarified that very fact yet you continue to throw out words to generate heat like "ignorance" followed by "show me proof".
It is one thing to have a. Position and a belief or an opinion, it is quite another to create a challenge where none was needed in the first place.
Sorta like ready, fire aim approach.

Btk

Fish oil
 

It's called risk-benefit analysis. And it's not an easy task.
As a retired physician this is a very basic concept. Every pharmaceutical medication has definite risks (side effects, reactions, whatever you want to call them). Some of these are very serious, even life threatening. But they also have specific benefits, which are very real. So the problem is figuring out whether the benefits outweigh any potential risks. Do not try to do this yourself. Do not rely on the advice of friends or people who post on blogs (who like to pretend they know what they are talking about). Use a professional.
The same goes for vitamins and nutritional supplements (even dietary regimens). They have benefits, yes. But they are definitely not risk free. And always remember that what may be good for one person, is not necessarily good for all persons. Doctors may or may not be good nutritionists, and nutritionist may know very little about treating disease.
Be careful out there
Pax vobiscum.

Thank you "doc".
btk

Understanding Coumadin


The Cleveland Clinic is world renowned for their valve replacement surgery.


Please click on hyperlink above and keep scrolling down, as you read along.........to “DIET” .


This section answers the questions on green veggies. Our cousin religiously has her blood tested.


She stringently avoids overdoing the green veggies, and other foods on the list.........It’s an interesting read.


Hers was for her mitral valve. Originally, the surgeons were just going to “repair the heart strings”.


However, when her heart was stopped during surgery, something happened and the “strings” broke.


They then put in an artificial valve instead of a lamb/sheep valve. This artificial valve could lead to clotting and stroke.


Thus, the warfarin/coumadin.



p.s. Interesting that warfarin was discovered originally from a rodent poison, which one can read elsewhere.


It’s very important for the blood workups to be done regularly to make certain the blood is not “too thin”.


The even more interesting thing about the mitral valve replacement surgery is that she had been treated for over 30 years for anxiety.


Her symptoms were pressure in the heart area, palpitations, the feeling of an elephant sitting on her chest...........plus fibromyalgia symptoms.


It wasn’t until she went to a cardiologist that they discovered her mitral valve prolapse...........so even docs can make an occasional mistake.


Then, it was during the surgery to REPAIR THE HEART STRINGS to the leaflets???........that they broke the strings and had to put in the artificial valve.


Forever she will be on coumadin.........and strictly watching her green veggie intake........etc. Again, please click hyperlink above and scroll down.

Although I included the hyperlink to the Cleveland Clinic in above post.........I've "isolated" this section on DIET for those interested in Vitamin K and fish oils, etc., etc.............but it is worthwhile to read the entire article as posted above. This info pertains to those patients taking daily coumadin/warfarin.

Diet : Be sure to talk with your doctor if you are planning any major diet changes, such as a weight-reducing diet, of if you plan to add any nutritional supplements.

Vitamin K is needed for normal blood clotting. When you are taking an oral anti-coagulant medication such as warfarin (Coumadin), high amounts of Vitamin K can work against the medication. The following guidelines will help control the amount of Vitamin K you are getting from the foods you eat. To help the medicine perform well, you should follow these guidelines:

Avoid grapefruit and cranberry products.
If you eat spinach, turnip greens, other leafy greens, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, kale, parsley (except as a garnish or minor ingredient), natto (a Japanese dish), liver, or green tea, be sure to eat a consistent amount week to week.
Eat all other foods as you normally would.
Tell your doctor if you are thinking about changing your current eating habits. Tell your doctor if you are planning to:
Eat more or less vegetables.
Change to a vegetarian style of eating.
Follow a special meal plan to lose or gain weight.

Changing your eating habits may mean that you will be getting more or less Vitamin K in the foods you eat. If you change your eating habits, your doctor may want to check your blood more frequently to see how the Coumadin therapy is working.

Do not take any herbal supplements that may keep your blood from clotting. The following supplements should not be used when taking anticoagulant medications prior to surgery:
Garlic
Ginger
Gingko biloba
Ginseng
Feverfew
Fish oil
Turmeric
St. Johns Wort
Chondrotin sulfate

Also, tell your doctor if you are currently taking any herbal supplements.
Do not take any vitamin supplements that provide more than 100 percent of the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA). Tell your doctor if you are currently taking more than the RDA of any vitamins (especially vitamins A, C or E).
Avoid chronic, heavy drinking of beverages containing alcohol. (Heavy drinking is more than two ounces of liquor, 10 ounces of wine, or 24 ounces of beer per day.)

If you drink tea, black tea is recommended because it is not high in Vitamin K. An example of black tea is orange pekoe tea.
If you want more servings of vegetables in your daily meal plan, choose vegetables that are not high in Vitamin K, such as corn, squash, potatoes, onions, carrots, cucumbers, celery, peppers, pumpkin and tomatoes.

Daily activities
Be careful when using razors. We suggest an electric razor or hair-removing creams to minimize the chance of cuts.
Use a soft toothbrush. Brush and floss gently to prevent bleeding from the gums.

Illness and emergencies
Keep your doctor's phone number close by in the event of an emergency.
Call your doctor if you have any symptoms of illness, such as vomiting, diarrhea, infection or fever. Illness can change the way warfarin (Coumadin) works.
Always carry or wear identification that states you are taking warfarin (Coumadin). In an emergency, you may not be able to speak for yourself.
Avoid situations where you may get hurt at home or at work. Even minor injuries must be watched for bleeding because warfarin (Coumadin) affects clotting.
Falls that cause bruising (bleeding under the skin) and cuts from sharp objects are more serious when you are taking warfarin (Coumadin).
Call your doctor if you have any injuries that involve falls or blows to the body or head.

If you do cut yourself and the cut is small, apply constant pressure over the cut until the bleeding stops. This may take up to 20 minutes. If the bleeding doesn't stop, continue to apply pressure and go to the nearest emergency room. If the cut is large, apply constant pressure and get help immediately either by phone or by going to the nearest emergency room.

There are many heart difficulties that are congenital and not caused by diet or lifestyle.

Some of them are;

Supravalvar aortic stenosis
Tetrology of Fallot
Marfans Syndrome
Transposition of the great vessels
Williams Syndrome
Ventricular Septal Defect
Mitral Valve prolapse
Atrial Septal defect.
Pumonary hypertension

And upwards of thirty more. See below.

Types of CHD and their Descriptions <br>

Thank You :a040:

I can't go along with your analogy because it's way too pessimistic. Your statements seem designed to discourage people from trying to learn and think for themselves. Also, if there are really bright doctors on both sides, the fact that you have decided to follow your doctor's advice is little more than a 50/50 gamble.