Talk of The Villages Florida - Universal Healthcare - Is It In Our Future? Let's discuss.

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- - Universal Healthcare - Is It In Our Future? Let's discuss. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/universal-healthcare-our-future-lets-discuss-207356/)

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Originally Posted by NYGUY (Post 1278987)

We can quit saying we will never vote for Universal Healthcare. We will be dead. Those coming after us will vote for it. This is an interesting conversation, but 20 year old's should be having it.

Yes they should ... but will they?

I was fortunate, throughout my HR career, to have worked at several fine (and generous) NY professional practice firms in both the legal and accounting industries.

And while the firms' contribution for employees was a generous percentage of the medical premium, they all had some sort of an employee contribution. Young people starting out have many competing desires for their entry level salaries ... first car, apartment, clothes, vacations, tuition loan repayments, etc.

I can not count how many times I counseled a new employee who chose not to participate in the medical -- even using scare tactics such as "... I know you are healthy and invincible ... but what if, god forbid, your appendix bursts without warning. Who is going to help you? Do you really want to put your parents at risk and possibly have to ask them to spend their retirement savings, or worse, sell their home because you didn't signup for medical coverage?"

Occasionally my tactic was successful. (Same was true with 401K signups where the company had a match program!) Try convincing this population that it is the best financial move available to them.

They can be a difficult demographic for discussions about healthcare and retirement issues.

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Originally Posted by rubicon (Post 1279115)

Indeed a complex topic and one too large for these pages.

One poster views healthcare as a right. I find it convenient when people invent rights for themselves. there is no legal or constitutional basis for such a right, no more than saying people have a right to own a home. We saw what that sort of thinking did to the housing industry with lax underwriting and we see how we are in multi-trillion dollar debt for student loans that many students believe they have a right not to pay back...........................and another dimension to this issue of "my right" is the fact that I am entitled to a lot of right ...its the American way

As to funding the short of it is that the federal government is too big too complex too under educated to handle managing 1/6th of our economy.

The central issue in the OP's topic is funding. The ACA laws were passed with the option to let people in or out at their leisure. Insurance is a pooling of resources by many for the benefit of some especially when it comes to catastrophic losses that the average family cannot absorb. so we have people who get sick buy insurance treat get better drop out. We have young people who being healthy will never opt in until they have a need. etc etc.

Again with sensible regulations and underwriting private insurers can do a better job both managing benefits vis a vis premiums and the fraud and abuse associated with this funding because it all means profit. and keep in mind insurance laws are written that contain the expense component of premium remain fixed. Premium are calculated on an ongoing basis to reflect what is occurring in the economy (marketplace) ACA insurance companies bleeding money are going to individual policies not in ACA to subsidized their losses . Tell me where or when the government worried about expenses or spending. I mean its someone else's money and it is low lying fruit to be picked at any time

This is an issue for us now because we are affected by it now. ACA instigated the mess we are in now. It has reverberated across the healthcare spectrum. My company because of ACA stopped negotiating insurance for its retirees because ACA removed the insurability option. so now the company offers an annual stipend and we do our own search . Ironically we chose the same health care plan as was offered by our company. the kicker is they tell me if we opt out then we are subjected to insurability. The reasoning is obvious and stated above.

ACA has been a disaster and it was meant to be because its authors really wanted a single payer system and so they intentionally have placed a lot of people in harms way to get their political agenda. IMHO people will rue the day they concede to government control vis a vis free enterprise for this large portion of our economy.

My wife and I are both 64 and are paying for our own health insurance so are in the small group that is getting keelhauled by medical juggernaut. When one says medical care is not a right that means someone has to make a call on what to do with people who cannot afford it. Do you do nothing, do you give them pain meds until they die, do you treat them up to a certain dollar limit, etc. Healthcare costs are one of the major reasons our manufacturing sector is dying. I am a believer in the free enterprise system but medical care is in an unsustainable profit making frenzy. Count me as a single payer supporter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paper1 (Post 1323541)

Agree or not this is a honest post on the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paper1 (Post 1323541)

It's sad to think that the greatest nation this planet has ever seen, puts so many things ahead of looking after the health of its citizens.

Especially since most other developed nations...have already came to that conclusion.

Hopefully, one of these days soon...that will be a stress that you no longer have. :thumbup:

Unfortunately we are fast becoming a nation of people who believe they are entitled to everything without having to pay for it. If it comes from the government it must be free. This includes health care. Until we move away from the entitlement way of thinking we will never solve this problem. Making a decision to not work or work less or let someone else take care of me has to have consequences. Those that can't help themselves should get help from all of us who can. Those that can but don't should not. Then and only then can we as a nation succeed with things like health care for all and retirement plans that work and other government social programs.

So what do we do about the current health care issues? There are several things that can be done but will be painful and expensive for all.

1. Get the government out of health care EXCEPT for a high deductible, catastrophic, supplemental plan with no pre existing limits. Maybe something like a 20K annual deductible with a multi million cap and an annual premium that is affordable and require everyone have it. This way private insurance can become competitive when they know they have some maximum expense. Lots of other details needed but something along this concept.
2. A limit on tort for medical malpractice along with a license removal when any doctor is sued X times. Get the bad ones out and a cap on total expense will again make the insurance more affordable and allow doctors to cut cost.
3. Allow drug companies a better way to expense drug development and testing to cut the total cost of new medicines. This is an area that adds significant cost to medical care, but is also required if we want to maintain a best of the best health care system.
4. Make medical school more affordable by providing interest free subsidized loans for those wanting to become doctors.

These four steps would be costly, but less then the current "affordable care act" is currently costing. It would cost all of us more then we now pay but would also provide access to excellent care and eliminate the fear of going broke when you have a serious illness. Again lots of details needed but this type of plan would work and cut total cost for all of us in the long term while still providing the best health care available. And there would always be the naysayers who will want the government completely out and the lawyers who will still want the large tort fees and will lobby against it, but if everyone supported something like this it would work.

I think it has to be and should be. What objective could be more important to our nation than the health of our families and individuals? Even though the ACA has provided a health coverage for approximatelly 20,000,000 people who did not have insurance prior to the law, there are still people who do not have insurance or can not afford the products the ACA has available.

I've argued before that the American Declaration of Independence, duly adopted by the Second Continental Congress states "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. � That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.........."

If our government is on record that we have that unalienable right to life, then does the government not have on undeniable responsibility to ensure that all citizens, regardless of socioeconomic status, has healthcare. This includes children, elderly, and those with sundry preexisting conditions.

The ACA is troubled because not enough healthy people are signing up for the insurance. It is doing wonders for children and the sick, but to make it profitable it must also have many payers who use it very little. It's the same financing philosophy as that behind Social Security. It's funded by the working, who don't use it until later in life.

Thus I am an advocate of a single payer system, with negotiated health care fees and drug prices, so that every American can have access to quality healthcare without the threat of bankruptcy. Medicare for all.

How do we afford it? I'm also an advocate for massive reform of the federal tax code which will cause a fair system where the wealthy and corporations pay a much higher share of their income than they do currently. This means ending offshore sheltering of income from federal tax and a tax rate that is much higher on those with incomes over $250,000.