[pooh]

Originally Posted by rubicon

pooh: Help me here. Based on your aforementioned comments what are your thoughts on a Harvard health Study done some years ago wherein medical people defined three types of people Excretors,Compensators and Storers of cholestrol. The first type passed cholestrol through the system. the second group balanced the amiubt of cholestrol taken with that which was produced by the body and eliminated the excess. The third group well their system just liked cholestrol so much it stored all it could get. This article made sense to me. It also occurred to me that something could upset this balance and compensators could become storers.

Fats have become the bad guy over the years.....but not all fats are the bad guys. Bodies use fats for energy, cell building, and almost all foods, including veggies, contain fats, though in small amounts. They also are filling...we are satisfied and can go longer between feedings. Of course, ingestion of too many fats isn't good, too many calories. Too much of anything isn't good...

I haven't read the study you've mentioned, but have heard something about the conclusions drawn or seen. Each of us is unique and different from one another. We are the results of a genetic soup and react and respond to stimuli in our own biochemical way. My Dad was a big beef, chicken, egg eater. He lived to 97 years of age. His cholesterol levels were always fantastic. Mom, who lived to 88, was more of a carb eater than heavy protein. Her figures were always higher than his. My brother seems to show low cholesterol levels like Dad. My sister and I tend to be more like Mom. Guess Dad had that non-responder type of body chemistry as far as this particular reaction is concerned.
Everyone should realize that highly processed foods, sodas, sweets, etc. offer calories, often times more than we need, and excess amounts of sugars, salt, and simple carbs that can adversely impact blood sugar levels. Moderation is the key as well as knowing how your body reacts and responds to foods. We are adults and have lived in our bodies for many years. Learning to eat correctly for your body chemistry is an ongoing process. We do not live without cellular change. Some is due to aging, some the result of environment, food intake, stress, so we should do our best to monitor ourselves, within limits. Personally, I think a hot fudge sundae every now and then is fun, delicious and satisfying.
No offense to those who are on much more strict food regimens....food is only one part of life and in addition to providing me with energy, I want more of a variety. Strictly plant based doesn't work well for me.....emotionally as well as biochemically.

Damnation, I'd better get off of my soapbox now and get some breakfast....an egg, yogurt, fruit, one small slice of bacon and toast.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Experts. Gosh you can't live with them but you can't live without them. Hmmmm Oh yes you can.

The assumption was that saturated fat and cholestrol in red meat created heart disease. a recent study in the Journal Nature Medicine points to carnitine a compound found abundant in red meat and also sold as a dietary supplement and found in energy drinks. Carnitine transports fatty acids into cells to be used as energy Cleveland Clinic found that with a certain bacteria in the digestive tract converts carnitine to another metaboite called TMAO that promotes atherosclerosis.

Now we are back to what is good for the goose may or not be good for the gander. If my body does not possess that certain bacteria then it will not interfere with the proper processing of canitine to give me that energy boost.

The problem with any and all of these studies is that they are general in nature given we are dealing with billions of people with diverse eating , physical and other habits.

EVOO may not be good for goose but gander loves the taste without compromising her health. In a real life situation my gander is my wife and she does not restrict her diet. yet when she tests for cholestrol her LDL's are so low and her HDL's so high she gets a false reading of a negative nature when in fact her readings are super.

I respect and truly take heed and certainly would not throw caution to the wind for those offering advice either be they experts or people like jimbo who study such issues in detail. But one must account for the fact that even with the best intentions such issues are open for further interpretations and conclusions.

I once again default to my natural position of "moderation in all things."

I mean what good is life without a periodic bannana split, etc.

Pooh (Quote)
Fats have become the bad guy over the years.....but not all fats are the bad guys. Bodies use fats for energy, cell building, and almost all foods, including veggies, contain fats, though in small amounts. They also are filling...we are satisfied and can go longer between feedings. Of course, ingestion of too many fats isn't good, too many calories. Too much of anything isn't good...

I haven't read the study you've mentioned, but have heard something about the conclusions drawn or seen. Each of us is unique and different from one another. We are the results of a genetic soup and react and respond to stimuli in our own biochemical way. My Dad was a big beef, chicken, egg eater. He lived to 97 years of age. His cholesterol levels were always fantastic. Mom, who lived to 88, was more of a carb eater than heavy protein. Her figures were always higher than his. My brother seems to show low cholesterol levels like Dad. My sister and I tend to be more like Mom. Guess Dad had that non-responder type of body chemistry as far as this particular reaction is concerned.
Everyone should realize that highly processed foods, sodas, sweets, etc. offer calories, often times more than we need, and excess amounts of sugars, salt, and simple carbs that can adversely impact blood sugar levels. Moderation is the key as well as knowing how your body reacts and responds to foods. We are adults and have lived in our bodies for many years. Learning to eat correctly for your body chemistry is an ongoing process. We do not live without cellular change. Some is due to aging, some the result of environment, food intake, stress, so we should do our best to monitor ourselves, within limits. Personally, I think a hot fudge sundae every now and then is fun, delicious and satisfying.
No offense to those who are on much more strict food regimens....food is only one part of life and in addition to providing me with energy, I want more of a variety. Strictly plant based doesn't work well for me.....emotionally as well as biochemically.

Damnation, I'd better get off of my soapbox now and get some breakfast....an egg, yogurt, fruit, one small slice of bacon and toast. (quote)


Pooh (quote)

A little chemistry about what goes on.....


The body uses saturated fatty acids mainly as a source of energy, but also as a building material (cell membranes). It obtains them either directly from food, or by conversion from sugars and starches. It is only when the level of saturated fatty acids in the body becomes excessive that they become a health problem. And this occurs when the rate of their absorption/conversion is higher than the rate at which the body burns the excess for energy.

Obviously, the key is in balancing your saturated lipids and carbohydrate intake with your physical activity.

Another common scenario of excess saturated fats intake being unhealthy over-consumption of animal fats from meats, eggs or dairy. Here, it is not saturated fats themselves, but the accompanying animal-made unsaturated fatty acid - arachidonic acid, also made by our own bodies - that does the harm. It is metabolized by the body to pro-inflammatory 2 Series prostaglandins and leukotrienes, more so when Omega-3 unsaturated fatty acid intake is low. These prostaglandins also make blood platelets more sticky, further promoting their aggregation and clot formation. (quote)

Excellent posts.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

This "AutoBike guy" spent 25 years as a research manager for chemical companies and has a licensed dietician daughter working in the PICU at Johns Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore that has drilled the benefits of olive oil into me.
Since you didn't like my first reference, maybe you'll believe the Mayo Clinic's expert in nutrition on the subject.
Olive oil: What are the health benefits? - MayoClinic.com

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, but rather respectfully trying to get you to see that your referenced author is the EXCEPTION to the generally-held medical opinion re Olive Oil.

BOY HOWDY!

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

This "AutoBike guy" spent 25 years as a research manager for chemical companies and has a licensed dietician daughter working in the PICU at Johns Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore that has drilled the benefits of olive oil into me.
Since you didn't like my first reference, maybe you'll believe the Mayo Clinic's expert in nutrition on the subject.
Olive oil: What are the health benefits? - MayoClinic.com

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, but rather respectfully trying to get you to see that your referenced author is the EXCEPTION to the generally-held medical opinion re Olive Oil.

Because it was drilled into U doesn't make it the gold standard does it?

That article is by a very well respected Dr. no doubt, but if U look at all his published papers none touch upon the subject of a plant based diet or the benefits of olive oil.

You one link to a very brief comment is not a scientific paper.

We follow the following Dr's, Esseltyn, Colin Campbell & dean Ornish, McDougal etc these Dr's are on the current edge of diet & nutrition and have IMO the strongest resumes and research on this subject.

They were put on the world stage treating Bill Clinton, then the followed up with DVD documentary "Fork over knives" the best selling DVD on Amazon last year.

In January I did a showing of that movie at the Savannah Ctr and arranged to have one of the patients in the movie along with myself follow up with a 90 minute Q&A, 225 people attended.

It was an eye opener for all.

Bottom line all oils damage the arteries, my own medical studies (MRI's, Echo's) bear that out. This diet can clean out your arteries - FACT.

I never claimed to be an expert, so please don't complain about my advice or opinions on heath & diet until U start paying me.




.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

This "AutoBike guy" spent 25 years as a research manager for chemical companies and has a licensed dietician daughter working in the PICU at Johns Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore that has drilled the benefits of olive oil into me.
Since you didn't like my first reference, maybe you'll believe the Mayo Clinic's expert in nutrition on the subject.
Olive oil: What are the health benefits? - MayoClinic.com

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, but rather respectfully trying to get you to see that your referenced author is the EXCEPTION to the generally-held medical opinion re Olive Oil.

I also agree that much of the research surrounding olive oil shows many benefits. I personally use olive oil very liberally and have arteries that are clean and clear. What works for one or is healthy for one is not always healthy for all, this is why they use many subjects when they study any protocol. Also you can find studies and doctors that will support the benefit of any "healthy lifestyle" you wish to follow and if someone follows that protocol they will usually defend it to the death no matter what conflicting evidence is presented.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by Cantwaittoarrive

I personally use olive oil very liberally and have arteries that are clean and clear. .

And do you know that?

R U taking any cholesterol meds?

What tests did you have done, care to share that?

[pooh]

There are some studies that show the benefits of a Med diet which includes olive oil. One study was done in Canada. Results were presented at the Canadian Cardiovascular Conference. Researchers were from the University of Montreal-affiliated ÉPIC Center of the Montreal Heart Institute. Studies were published on the New England Journal of Medicine's web site in Feb. of this year. The findings were based on the first major clinical trial to measure the diet’s effect on heart risks.

We can all find various studies that might strengthen our position. Jimbo's diet strategy works well for him....he has seen significant changes for the good in his physical and biochemical condition. Others have seen similar results following a Medeterranian diet plan. Not all can adhere to a vegan eating plan, and find alternatives more appealing...and results for them could be just as beneficial.
No two people are alike, no two people have the same response to stimuli.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....

[jimbo2012]

Pooh, a vegan diet at first takes will power, not everyone can do it.

Sometimes it takes a medical event to find that will power.

There is another group of vegans that R on a plant based diet due to the way animals are raised and slaughtered.

For those interested in asking diet questions and a zillion other health questions check out

Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board • Index page

10,000 members 350,000 posts

.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

....

And in the spirit of full disclosure, I borrowed the above links from here:
Debunking Myths About An Animal Based Diet | EUPHORY
The author does a great job of shooting holes in the movie in great depth.

I thought I was the only one around here that read that "review"......

[pooh]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Pooh, a vegan diet at first takes will power, not everyone can do it.

Sometimes it takes a medical event to find that will power.

There is another group of vegans that R on a plant based diet due to the way animals are raised and slaughtered.

For those interested in asking diet questions and a zillion other health questions check out

Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board • Index page

10,000 members 350,000 posts

.

I have no doubt it takes will power. For me, physiologically and psychologically, it's a no go. Even those who espouse vegan diets differ in just what is appropriate as far as what foods are acceptable.....just like the rest of us....

Good health to you, Jimbo.

[gustavo]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Experts. Gosh you can't live with them but you can't live without them. Hmmmm Oh yes you can.

...
I respect and truly take heed and certainly would not throw caution to the wind for those offering advice either be they experts or people like jimbo who study such issues in detail. But one must account for the fact that even with the best intentions such issues are open for further interpretations and conclusions.

...

If you think about it, over the last 300 (or more) years the "expert" opinion is ultimately proven "bad medicine" by other experts 10-30 years later. But it is possible that Jimbo's expert will break that tradition.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by AutoBike

the scientific community doesn't all agree with you.

It will be a cold day in hell when the scientific community agrees in total.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

And do you know that?

R U taking any cholesterol meds?

What tests did you have done, care to share that?

No meds period for anything. You may not remember I laid out in past post the trial I have been taking part in for years that involve eating lots of meat and oils including starting off my day with grass fed butter and organic coconut oil in my first cup of coffee, no need to go over it again but certainly look at my past post on this subject if you are really all that interested. I get tested, scanned, poked and prodded multiple times a year and I'm clean and clear

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I forgot I also eat 4 or 5 eggs in a nice cheese omelet with onions every day for lunch which is the first meal of my day.

[jimbo2012]

Ok what tests?

MRI 256 slice
Cardioid duplex
Heart echo
Stress with dye