[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

You are trying to brush back the tide with a very small broom. The use of hydroxychloroquine has skyrocketed worldwide and almost 400% in the USA. Manufacturers can't keep up with demand. If you know of another drug that is being used that much with other drugs to fight covid 19 let us know the results. It's pretty much included in standard of care worldwide. There are over 145 trials at NLM using HCQ plus various other drugs, wonder why?

As far as zinc being used with HCQ and other drugs, here are a few reports. No CTs yet but they are being done.

First, the reason Doctors are trying it is probably based on this invitrio study.

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture

For a less technical explanation a video by Dr Seheult

Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown - YouTube


Dr Zelenko in New York (has treated 900 patients)

New updates from Dr. Vladimir Zelenko: Cocktail of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc Sulfate and Azithromycin are showing phenomenon results with 900 coronavirus patients treated - Must Watch Video | Tech News | Startups News

DR Smith in New York is also reporting good results with HCQ + zithromycin + zinc

Dr. Cardillo with Mend Urgent Care in Sherman Oaks says using hydroxychloroquine with zinc appears to be working in the handful of patients he has prescribed it to.

"It was actually the hydroxychloroquine opening up a channel in the cellular membranes allowing zinc to come into the cells," he said, "And we do know high levels of zinc inside of the cell that's infected with the virus shuts down that viral replication machinery."

He also gave patients azithromycin, an antibiotic most of us know as a Z-pack, to treat possible subsequent bacterial infections.

Dr Sabine Hazan of Progenabiome is doing a clinical trial on HCQ + zinc

A Study of Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, and Zinc for the Prevention of COVID-19 Infection - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

An interesting interview with DR Hazan here

Dr. Sabine Hazan On COVID-19 Clinical Research, with Dan Sfera (The Clinical Trials Guru podcast) - YouTube

PS these are not asymptomatic patients the above Doctors are treating.

PS2 If 99% of people can recover by rearranging their furniture, why are we arguing about drugs? I have some heavy items, come on over and I'll cure you.

I like to know the educational background of those giving medical advice. Again I ask, please, Goodlife, tell us if you have credentials in medical fields. I also know many, well read people who do not have medical degrees but are measured, and careful in their advice.

I trust the two medical doctors who post on this forum; Blueash and Soaring Eagles and I trust many posters who carefully use disclaimers and qualifiers and choose to quote well documented sources usually held to be reliable by the general public and English teachers.
.

Goodlife. Please tell us what you did for gainful employment before you retired?

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Okay. Then what good are all these threads going to do for you if you should happen to get sick? Are you going to print them all up and show them to your doctor and have him pick a treatment?

I have spoken to several of my Doctors about hydroxychloroquine and other drugs being used at Villages and Ocala hospitals. I was concerned about the arrhythmia factor. My cardiac electrophysiologist who recently performed heart ablation on me and knows my heart better than anyone told me yes I could use the drug safely, they only use it for 5-6 days, would look again at my EKG and QT intervals before prescribing.

I like to have a plan. This virus can go from mild symptoms to killing you in a few days.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I like to know the educational background of those giving medical advice. Again I ask, please, Goodlife, tell us if you have credentials in medical fields. I also know many, well read people who do not have medical degrees but are measured, and careful in their advice.

I trust the two medical doctors who post on this forum; Blueash and Soaring Eagles and I trust many posters who carefully use disclaimers and qualifiers and choose to quote well documented sources usually held to be reliable by the general public and English teachers.
.

Goodlife. Please tell us what you did for gainful employment before you retired?

Rocket Scientist, Tour Professional

PS I am not giving medical advice, merely reporting news about Doctors using various drug therapies for coronavirus.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

Blueash you are banging your head against a brick wall in trying to make sense of the OP's ramblings, and boy can he ramble. With all due respect, you are also assuming the majority of us on this chat line don't have the intelligence to ignore the ramblings. I managed to read through his first post and after that I gave up, one can only absorb so much of this paranoia before losing interest, in fact the only reason I continue to open this particular thread is to see what you have written in answer to the long winded ramblings.

But, thank you for the concern and please keep bringing truth to power of the pen.

Paranoia? It's not paranoia to be aware of a few basic facts

1. A large portion of the media likes to bash a certain someone.
2. Pharmaceutical and medical companies spend more on lobbying than any other industry.
3. HCQ pills have no patent and cost dollars per day while designer drugs like remdesivir more like $1000 per day.
4. It's a fact that there is fraud of many types in scientific and medical research, certainly not all of it but to deny it exists would be foolish.

I post about many things, not just HCQ. For instance I warned people about how virus particles from sneezes and coughs can travel more than 6 feet, and the original CDC advisory on no need to be wearing masks might be a mistake.

I get lots of "thanks" for my posts, you are entitled to your opinion of course.

[GoodLife]

COVID-19 MANAGEMENT PROTOCOL Developed and updated by Paul Marik, MD Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine Eastern Virginia Medical School, Norfolk, VA

Preliminary data suggests that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine decrease the duration of viral shedding. In addition, chloroquine has favorable immunomodulating properties including inhibition of PAI-1 expression. These agents are now FDA approved for the treatment of COVID19. These agents (if available) could be used to mitigate/curtail the spread of this virus and could be used in elderly patients with comorbidities at risk of progression and death. Zinc (Zn++) inhibits viral RNA dependent RNA polymerase (replicase). Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are potent Zn ionophores that increase intracellular Zn concentrations

https://www.inciid.org/sites/default...20-revised.pdf

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by blueash

That you would trot out Dr. Raoult to comment

Yes, I tend to "trot out" recognized experts.

In terms of credibility, Dr. Raoult is one of the world’s most eminent scientists. “According to the Thomson Reuters source “Highly Cited Researchers List”, Raoult is among the most influential researchers in his field and his publications are among the 1% most consulted in academic journals. He is one of the 99 most cited microbiologists in the world and one of the 73 most highly cited French scientists. He is a world reference for Q fever and Whipple’s disease. In April 2017, on Google Scholar citations, he cumulated over 104,000 citations and an h index of 148. He is also on the list of the 400 most cited authors in the biomedical world…”

[GoodLife]

The VA study is even worse than I thought. They moved patients from control group to HCQ group once they went on ventilator! This garbage will get savaged in peer review.

The conclusion that HC causes higher risk of death is basically wrong due to a huge sampling bias. The problem lies in the fact that once people went on ventilators they were given HC or HC+AZ. This re-categorised the patients by increasing the number of high risk patients in the HC and HC+AZ groups making the No HC an invalid control group.
Before ventilation the statistics was like this: (Table 4 in paper)
HC: 90 - 9 (10.0%) deaths - 69 (76.6%) recover - 12 (13.3%) onto ventilation
HC+AZ: 101 - 11 (10.9%) deaths - 83 (82.2%) recover - 7 (06.9%) onto ventilation
No HC: 177 - 15 ( 8.4%) deaths - 137 (77.4%) recover - 25 (14.1%) onto ventilation
We see that death-rate is about the same for all groups but HC+AZ seams to have the highest recovery rate but it might not be statistically significant.
Now once people hit ventilation the re-categorisation occurs. More patients where given HC and HC+AZ which moved them from the No HC group to the HC or HC+AZ group. These groups therefore have a much higher % of ventilation patients because they were given the drugs after they hit ventilation.
The following data can be derived from the paper but is not presented:
Once people hit ventilation we have the following results.
HC: 19 - 18 (95%) deaths - 1 (11%) recover
HC+AZ: 19 - 14 (73%) deaths - 5 (27%) recover
No HC: 6 - 3 (50%) deaths - 3 (50%) recover
If you compare these 2 tables, you see that 25 patient with No HC reach ventilation. Once they reach ventilation, 19 of these where give HC or HC+AZ, thereby moved from the No HC group to the other two. 79.5% of all patients reaching ventilation died so arguably 14 patients that died where moved from the No HC group to the other 2 groups only once they reach the much higher risk state.
Here are the number of people per group that got ventilation:
HC: 97 - 19 (19.6%) got ventilation
HC+AZ: 113 - 19 (16.8%) got ventilation
No HC: 158 - 6 ( 3.4%) got ventilation

So the conclusion that HC causes more death is basically wrong. All it shows is that people that need ventilation are more likely to die.