[CoachKandSportsguy]

Details matter, but you don't get all the information from headlines, nor from the analysis public sees. Yes, CoachK has access to all the hospital data and can see this issue clearly. For those who have only visited hospitals for personal medical reasons, and who don't actually get to listen to daily all department briefings by senior staff, can't really appreciate what goes on behind the scenes, and what happens on a daily basis to make your encounter have the best outcome possible by other humans who make mistakes like you do.

COVID-19 breakthrough data triggers common statistical mistake

Likewise, thinking that medical data reported is determined by a hospital is also flawed. The feds and the states determine what and how the hospitals report. And that means that the states and the fed determine the definitions of what and how to count. And let me tell you, the hospitals are given unrealistic deadlines from the states and the fed to report, meaning the data is not previously collected, so then the hospitals push back in a somewhat one sided negotiations, the new data request meeting is on Friday afternoon and the reporting is required to start Monday, state mandated

So when the big hospitals all use the same EPIC system, and EPIC doesn't manage the individual state required data points. . . hospitals data and analytics staff spend hours working on collecting data for public health reporting, to be used by the political system.

Voting matters folks, and the primaries matter more the people realize.

good luck out there

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Details matter, but you don't get all the information from headlines, nor from the analysis public sees. Yes, CoachK has access to all the hospital data and can see this issue clearly. For those who have only visited hospitals for personal medical reasons, and who don't actually get to listen to daily all department briefings by senior staff, can't really appreciate what goes on behind the scenes, and what happens on a daily basis to make your encounter have the best outcome possible by other humans who make mistakes like you do.

COVID-19 breakthrough data triggers common statistical mistake

Likewise, thinking that medical data reported is determined by a hospital is also flawed. The feds and the states determine what and how the hospitals report. And that means that the states and the fed determine the definitions of what and how to count. And let me tell you, the hospitals are given unrealistic deadlines from the states and the fed to report, meaning the data is not previously collected, so then the hospitals push back in a somewhat one sided negotiations, the new data request meeting is on Friday afternoon and the reporting is required to start Monday, state mandated

So when the big hospitals all use the same EPIC system, and EPIC doesn't manage the individual state required data points. . . hospitals data and analytics staff spend hours working on collecting data for public health reporting, to be used by the political system.

Voting matters folks, and the primaries matter more the people realize.

good luck out there

Great post!!!!

Having dealt with the reporting requirements for 35 years, I can definitely state you are 100% correct. The amount of effort that goes into gathering data for the state and federal "regulators" is incredible. And since the people who demand that data have absolutely no idea what they are looking at, it really is a huge waste of time. Of course, they do not want to know what they are getting, since that leaves them free to spin it anyway they like.

My favorite wildly inaccurate spin revolves around a Hopkins "study" that implied 375,000 Americans die each year in hospitals from "medical mistakes" It's a great spin to put on flawed data to push a political agenda. The reality is that he overwhelming majority of the "errors" revolve around a pill being administered outside the 1/2 hour either way window, even if it is Tylenol. So, for example, a patient with stage 4 pancreatic carcinoma has a tylenol ordered at 6:30. The nurse has from 6:00 to 7:00 to administer it, otherwise it is counted as a "medication error", even if given at 7:01. When that patient dies of their disease 3 weeks later, it was counted as a "death due to medical error"---nice study design----makes no distinction between death with or due to, and does not account for the severity and relevance of the "error". And this is what hospitals have to put up with all the time.

Imagine what this would be like in other occupations.

***A mechanic changes you oil, but fills it with 1/2 OUNCE less oil than the manual states. The driver gets into a fatal car accident 4 weeks later and some government authority, run by a farmer, deems it a death due to mechanic negligence.

***A waitress accidentally gives you ketchup instead of hot sauce for you breakfast potatoes which you just accept and use. Three weeks later you die of intestinal cryptosporidiosis and the government agency run by a plumber deems it a death due to negligent food service (no mention that the victim was HIV positive and that you can't get cryptosporidiosis from ketchup)

Extreme analogies, I admit it, but it's not too far from the truth, which is why I tend to go "ape $**t" when some bozo throws that statistic out here on TOTV.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Great post!!!!

Having dealt with the reporting requirements for 35 years, I can definitely state you are 100% correct. The amount of effort that goes into gathering data for the state and federal "regulators" is incredible. And since the people who demand that data have absolutely no idea what they are looking at, it really is a huge waste of time. Of course, they do not want to know what they are getting, since that leaves them free to spin it anyway they like.

My favorite wildly inaccurate spin revolves around a Hopkins "study" that implied 375,000 Americans die each year in hospitals from "medical mistakes" It's a great spin to put on flawed data to push a political agenda. The reality is that he overwhelming majority of the "errors" revolve around a pill being administered outside the 1/2 hour either way window, even if it is Tylenol. So, for example, a patient with stage 4 pancreatic carcinoma has a tylenol ordered at 6:30. The nurse has from 6:00 to 7:00 to administer it, otherwise it is counted as a "medication error", even if given at 7:01. When that patient dies of their disease 3 weeks later, it was counted as a "death due to medical error"---nice study design----makes no distinction between death with or due to, and does not account for the severity and relevance of the "error". And this is what hospitals have to put up with all the time.

Imagine what this would be like in other occupations.

***A mechanic changes you oil, but fills it with 1/2 OUNCE less oil than the manual states. The driver gets into a fatal car accident 4 weeks later and some government authority, run by a farmer, deems it a death due to mechanic negligence.

***A waitress accidentally gives you ketchup instead of hot sauce for you breakfast potatoes which you just accept and use. Three weeks later you die of intestinal cryptosporidiosis and the government agency run by a plumber deems it a death due to negligent food service (no mention that the victim was HIV positive and that you can't get cryptosporidiosis from ketchup)

Extreme analogies, I admit it, but it's not too far from the truth, which is why I tend to go "ape $**t" when some bozo throws that statistic out here on TOTV.

So you're saying that those MVAs and Gun Shot victims in Illinois, who died and tested Covid Positive post mortem, didn't die of Covid?

No way!

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

So you're saying that those MVAs and Gun Shot victims in Illinois, who died and tested Covid Positive post mortem, didn't die of Covid?

No way!

J Mintzer wakes up from summer vacation and chimes in with his typical humor!

[Bay Kid]

Everyone has an agenda. Too many lies. They want us to be sheeps and follow them over the hill.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

So you're saying that those MVAs and Gun Shot victims in Illinois, who died and tested Covid Positive post mortem, didn't die of Covid?

No way!

I don't believe I was addressing COVID at all, although your point is most likely valid as well.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

J Mintzer wakes up from summer vacation and chimes in with his typical humor!

Wakes up?

Not exactly...

Seems the powers that be didn't exactly "appreciate" my humor...

I'm back from Elba...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I don't believe I was addressing COVID at all, although your point is most likely valid as well.

I was also addressing "data gathering", but using Covid as an example...

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Wakes up?

Not exactly...

Seems the powers that be didn't exactly "appreciate" my humor...

I'm back from Elba...

Did you bring Mr. Bonaparte with you?????

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Did you bring Mr. Bonaparte with you?????

Sadly, he's still in exile...