1976 Swine flu, H1N1. The vaccine caused Guillain-barre syndrome in some people. It's an auto-immune disease. The first GP I worked for was on the front lines for that one and told me the whole sordid story of it. That is the primary reason vaccines take so long these days.

Arizona'''s Coronavirus Cases Declined 75 Percent After Mask Mandates | PEOPLE.com

hmmm, somehow magically masks have an effect. Of course the health care industry have been wearing masks for a long time for the same reason, even your dentist probably wore one before COVID. . .

Yes, i know people second hand who have died, and I don't have confidence that I know all my co-morbidities, so I don't really want to gamble on what I don't know, which is how my body will respond, but i do know that as the air conditioning is less needed and people spend more time outside, the rate of infections will drop, and in the north, the opposite will happen, as it is now.

So do you know which co-morbidities you have which will be considered a weakness for the virus to attack?

sportsguy

Masking
 

Mr. and I have gotten used to masks due to family members and friend who are immunocompromised (chemo, transplant, etc). A very small inconvenience to help ensure their safety. Not really different, you don't know who in the Publix or at the mailboxes may be in the same situation.

That is not the answer. What a cop out.

How many of those who died of Covid with pre-exiting conditions would have lived many more years taking medication to control their pre-existing conditions?

Actually, it is a legitimate and logical answer. Stay home if you are worried about becoming infected. Protect yourself. You cannot demand others to protect you.

I agree with that.

Plus we all know about laws forbidding illegal drugs and having guns. Yup.

Having spent time recently both in the Villages and at our northern home, I personally feel much safer going out and about, and not catching Covid, while in the Villages. Sure, the Villages has it‘s share of Covidiots and Maskholes, but in general it is much safer in the bubble. Outside of the bubble it is very evident that quarantine burnout is growing daily. Older people are more vulnerable and tend to be more patient, making the Villages relatively safe. In general, wherever younger people are, watch out! This will get even worse up north as it gets colder and more people gather indoors. It’s going to be a long fall and winter, Covid won’t suddenly disappear when the ball drops on New Years : (

No
 

The key is to shun & make those who disregard those who refuse to wear masks pariahs. Anyone who goes to large gatherings like weddings, bars, etc without following CDC guidelines should be called out for being dangerous to society. It won’t happen now, but if the leadership is changed, it’s time to jail violators or lock them up in their own houses. This was done in China. China has many times more people than America with higher population densities, yet it’s America that is the poster boy for how NOT to handle a pandemic. The Midwest is raging with COVID19 to no one’s surprise when they encouraged an event like Sturgis where a half million drunk bikers were cheered on to come party & the lead act singer proclaims “F..k COVID” to rapturous applause.
No, don’t give up! Do make the people who are blissfully helping COVID19 persona non grata!

I am sure that shunning someone will make some feel good about themselves. Those being shunned may not care, or not even notice. So the joke will be on the ones that make the effort to shun. My daughter gave me a "T" shirt that says "I DON'T CARE" on it in big white letters. She sends me a lot of interesting shirts. She will probably get me in trouble some day, but she does make me laugh. But, I digress. The point is that one person's point of view may be important to them, but hardly a thought to others. But, go ahead through the motions if it makes you feel good.
By the way, Sturgis is not all about getting together and drinking. It's big because thousands of folks travel there once a year to see the "bikes." Many of those bikes are owned by wealthy folks that invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in them. A lot of those folks are responsible adults that are hard working or retired, NOT drunken biker gang rejects. But, to some all bikers are the same.

Personally, it is my belief that the reason we do not have more infected by the virus is the lack of school age kids in The Villages. Yes, it does seem like we live in a "bubble" doesn't it? I feel that way also.. But, if you think about it we have less contagious illnesses here than in other parts of the country, that extends year round. It's not just this virus, but the flu, colds, etc. School children interact with contagious children and bring it home. Less children, less chance of infection. Thus, the feeling that we are protected. Same goes with crime. Less adolescent children, less juvenile delinquents and crime.
This is just my opinion, not science and not based on any factual studies.

I would like to comment on the mantra, "Stay home" that some people have been spouting........

Staying home does absolutely nothing to stimulate the economy but does everything to promote depression and hopelessness. Shouldn't we be all about getting our economy to be prosperous again? Shouldn't we be all about getting the children back in schools safely? Shouldn't we be all about getting college campuses operating safely? Shouldn't we be all about getting sports up and running again with actual fans in the seats and filling those stadiums and arenas to full capacity? How about being able to do grocery shopping in the store and not having to order on line? Not to mention, dining in restaurants and giving the service people their livelihoods back to what they were prepandemic.

Staying home stifles all of this. Yes, I do believe telling people to "stay home" is absolutely wrong on every level. We have to learn to live with this virus out there. That does not mean we should "stay home". That means social distancing, wearing masks, washing our hands frequently and do not touch our faces when our hands are not freshly washed.

Listen to the experts and do what they say. Don't be a science denier and write your own rules. Most of all, please don't tell people to "stay home".

That's just crazy... That's like people who get cancer if there lifestyle is different don't pay for treatment...Most people out are wearing mask. An there are some who don't. So if you have a mask then your protected... So don't worry bout the ones who don't. If you really want to protect yourself live in a bubble no context with anything in the outside world.

What gave you THAT idea?

The media has pushed this idea.

Anyone that has paid any attention to this you learn a couple things.

1. You can't hide from it.
2. You can reduce your inoculum. How much? Any helps. You can go from an LD50 dose of virus to a toxic or "therapeutic" dose which might mean you have an asymptomatic case or just some sniffles.
3. Mask wearing seems to be associated with increasing cases. That's bad right? Except that the cases seem to be 95% asymptomatic. That's a win anyway you look at it.

One particular study on it is here:
Masks Do More Than Protect Others During COVID-19: Reducing the Inoculum of SARS-CoV-2 to Protect the Wearer

I don't think wearing masks outside does anything. Driving alone in your car? Asinine. In close proximity, indoors, to people with unknown infection status? Better than nothing. Masks will stop viral laden droplets going both directions, in or out. This will give you the best chance at a low initial inoculum.

By the same token, it certainly looks like this thing burns through a region, taking out the weakest and then it's predominantly done. The Northeast went through it in March and April, the south in June and July, now it's the upper midwest's turn. Then it's mostly done, running out of hosts. It's the same everywhere. Look at where it was active in Spain in the spring, look where it's active in Spain now. They are opposites. Every country, it's the same. I hate to break it to New Zealand but eventually they are going to get the big spike. Locking the doors doesn't work forever. Maybe they can hold on until there's an effective vaccine.

I agree with most of what you posted, except:
1) You really can't apply the term LD50 to a viral inoculum like you would to a dose of poison---the correlation between dose and death isn't that tight
2) the best way to reduce inoculum size is distance.

I agree that distance is best, far and away.

As to LD50 and viral inoculum, they did exactly that with mice. They kept shooting them up the nose with stronger and stronger viral inoculum of H5N1 until they found the LD50 dose of it.

A Mouse Model for the Evaluation of Pathogenesis and Immunity to Influenza A (H5N1) Viruses Isolated from Humans

Of course with humans, there is a lot more involved since we aren't lab rats and no two humans are identical. There is certainly a correlation with the amount of initial exposure to virus to outcome. It also appears that in many cases, tcells squash the virus before you end up with any level of bcell antibodies. The PCR test in the "asymptomatics" in many cases is probably detecting viral debris, not active virus. This is probably because the initial inoculum was quite low. Either that or they are running the cycle threshold out to 40+.

Best way to get a low inoculum is distance. Second best way is shielding. Since I can't walk around in a plexiglass cocoon, I'll have to settle on masking indoors in close proximity only.

All true, of course it is a lot easier to kill a mouse than a person. I agree that severity of illness is proportional to inoculum. The correlation between death and severity of illness would empirically seem correct, but as you know it doesn't always work that way

Your statement is true but to some small degree. Masking protects the people around the wearer of the mask. Wearing a mask offers less protection to the wearer.

On this we agree. I think there is a very fine line between protecting people from the virus and killing them with the restrictions. My heart bleeds for the people with no job because of this who are unable to pay their bills. I try to support the local businesses as best I can.

If you wear a mask properly (covering your nose and face) then you have REDUCED YOUR RISK of infection. You are not "protected."

If everyone around you is also wearing a mask, that risk is significantly reduced even more. If you don't wear a mask, and everyone else is wearing one, then you might well be spreading that virus to them - because the greatest risk is with people who are infected, and not masked, spreading the infection to everyone else. Because masks don't prevent you from getting sick. It only reduces your risk.

Risk Reduction.

You can google it, or bing it, or duck duck go it, whatever floats your boat. But please look up the term "risk reduction" to learn what it means. It's basic stuff.

It's not a fine line at all. There's plenty of wiggle room here. And the "best practices," the best method of risk reduction while keeping the economy flowing:

Wash your hands.
Wear a mask (properly, covering nose and mouth)
Maintain a respectful distance from others.

At this point, it's not even 6 feet. If you're wearing a mask, stay at arm's length. It's not too much to ask, it's not an unreasonable request, it doesn't infringe on 'mah freedums." Don't touch me, don't breathe on me, don't get in my space. This is something you should've been doing most of your life. It's called common courtesy. Or it used to be, until someone decided that "mah freedums" were more important.

Yes. Those 3 things on your list are all we’ve got so why not? It makes no sense not to try.

One thing that really surprises me is that there are women falling into the Orwellian traps.

When women love, really love, that love comes with an almost primitive instinct to protect those they love. Women can love like tigresses or mama bears.

Yet, here we are, seeing women caught up in believing what they WANT to believe about Covid — even though they could end up putting those they love at risk. I don’t get it.

Boomer

PS: I am in Ohio right now. My phone just rang. I have a doc’s appointment today and was planning to go in person. But the office just called to ask if I could do the appointment on Zoom due to increased Covid. We have taken a half step forward and two or three steps backward. . .Damn, right, I am tired of Covid but I am also tired of those who will not do what they can to get us through this. This started in winter, then came spring, summer, now fall. Four seasons — with no end in sight. This is reality.

was called the hong kong flu, & don't forget the bird flu about 16 years ago

Be safe. Get your blood drawn and do the virtual visit. My Heart doc saw me in person. I was very insecure about going. He is old. I am old. We are both still here Thank God. Your feelings are echoed by every thinking soul I know. Be smart and safe.

We are all intensely trying to do the right thing. I do believe that the entire world feels exactly the same. This may be a test. It sure as hell isn't a conspiracy theory. That little sucker is real and He/She is waiting............................

Yes. I will be Zooming with the doc this afternoon. I will have to get my Zoom Room all ready for the background. Will he recognize me with this big silver streak on top of my head? At least my smile will get to show. (Where oh where did I put those Crest Whitestrips? I must be ready for my close-up.)

Gracie, we agree on the reality of Covid, for sure.

I cannot imagine how people, especially women, are falling for the message that tells them that they, and those they love, are disposable. It is surreal.