When I was growing up, my mom was not one of those strict moms that you described above. I won't bore you with all the details but believe me, I ate my share of processed desserts, which I now will call "garbage".

Basically, I guess you could say that, as a kid, I ate the Standard American Diet (SAD). It included everything that you and others on this board would happily call "moderation". Thankfully, I survived it because I was young.

But she did draw a line when it came to stocking the refrigerator. I, as a young lad, was not in charge of stocking the refrigerator. And now, when I think back to those days, I'm glad that she was an adult with a backbone to set down some common sense rules.

Now, though I'm young at heart, I'm getting older and older and it's a whole new ball game. Whatever life is left for me, I value and want to make the most of it. And the so called "golden years" won't come from eating junk. A poor diet will only serve to hasten or bring on the degenerative diseases of aging.

Remember, it's all about risk. You can say that you and your uncle eat lots of junk and are still healthy. But disease has a way of showing up when you don't expect it, and then it's a surprise, at least it is to most people.

Hope I didn't bore anyone!

When I picture you. I picture you short and very thin.

The Italian diet of olden days , when my grandmother and aunts cooked it, as well as my dad, was very HEAVY on the vegetables. They ate meat sparingly. The cheese was their source of dairy. I recall fondly all of the wonderful "vegetarian soups" and they didn't even know they were eating a vegetarian lifestyle for the most part..........bean soups, lentil soups, vegetable soups.......simple green salads every day........eggplant, zucchini, you name it............plus they grew their own tomatoes and green peppers..........ate FRUIT for dessert "except on holidays".........ate NO BUTTER on their wonderful Italian bread. I don't recall anyone in my dad's family being obese. They were all THIN.

My dad ate walnuts, chestnuts, pears, cantalupe, oranges for DESSERT.

Everything was prepared from scratch in those days. NO PROCESSED FOODS.

Also, they made their own wine..........so no sulfites were added.
Fruit of the vine is supposedly good for your arteries and such......

Sure, if you are going to "choose" anchovies, pepperoni, salami, etc. rather than the daily preparation of home made bean and lentil soups, then you would get the salt..........but those were used for flavorings more than "snacks".

All ethnic groups had a type of preserved summer sausage or salty meat which they "put up" against hard times or winter approaching.........using meat scraps or what have you.

P.S. I totally forgot to mention all the "greens" I grew up on.......such as ESCAROLE, SPINACH, BROCCOLI, GREEN BEANS, romaine lettuce, chicory in soups, parsley, etc...........probably more than I can think of so early in the a.m. Plus lots of veggies like zucchini, tomatoes, green and red peppers, carrots in everything.....eggplant but no corn. I don't ever remember eating corn at my grandmothers............although the polenta was made of cornmeal.

Below link is just for "fun" ..........the huge roast beef does NOT belong with the Italian veggies. Use right downward arrow on screen to keep scrolling down...........
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...bles&FORM=IGRE
In a nutshell, they did eat a lot of vegetables...........so perhaps they were ahead of their times and “knew” what was healthy.
They also ate a lot of seafood, as I recall.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/cda/...MATTER,00.html
Here is a modern version of the old “Escarole and Bean Soup” I grew up on. Very few kids would eat this today........
Back “in the day” they didn’t use Progresso canned cannelini beans..........but used dried beans they soaked overnight. This is a shortcut recipe.
Lentil soup is also yummy with spinach or other greens in it.............it’s easy to make with the dried lentils...........again, we grew up with lentil soup.

The Italian kids in high school , who didn't do the cafeteria meals.......would come in with huge eggplant parmesan sandwiches made by their moms for the working brothers and dads to take to work.
No fast food in those days.........or else, peppers and egg sandwiches........potatoes and egg sandwiches, or tuna salad (NO MAYO) Italian style which is with red wine vinegar, diced onions, garlic, etc.....
Everything had lots of garlic in it............which is good for you.

The Asian culture also knew the value of garlic and other herbs as medicinals........as did the Italians..........so I'd say these cultures were ahead of their times.......ahead of the pharmaceutical companies.

Well, I'm lean and muscular but I don't consider myself to be short. I'm about average height. My parents were taller than their parents and I grew taller than my parents. Those of you who are not tall, be thankful because tall people on average live shorer lives.

When people came here from Europe (or wherever) they grew taller and taller because they ate more and more animal protein. Being tall is good if you work for a large corporation because you'll be more likely to get promotions over those who are shorter. Not to mention the fact that women like tall men. But that's where the advantage ends. The odds are against tall people living to advanced old age. And this may be part of the reason why women usually outlive men. Women on average are shorter than men.

:)

Sorry. It's not my imagination. Grade school and middle school kids in the neighborhood would walk to the gas stations, Walgreens, and fast food places and buy junk food, pop and candy. The kids held in Food Jail at home (prohibited from having a snack of any kind after school...were forced to wait till 6pm full meal) would get it from the neighbor kids and buy it with their own money, and if they were at a neighbor's house it didn't take a "permissive" mom to give them a treat if their own kids were having one.

hmmmm

You would be interested in Dr. Michael Mosley's PBS documentary.

We watched it early this morning while having our coffee....
(normally we watch our recording of the Amazing Race, but it wasn't on last evening).......

PBS documentary was about fasting........quite interesting study. He tested fasting on himself with life changing results. His next segment will be on exercise...........this is all in relationship to aging. His own aging.

One of the contributors to the show explained how very very short people (in Ecuador I believe) never get cancer or other life threatening ills that befall modern society. They are extremely short.

You never answered my query as to whether you are male or female.
Now I see you are a lad. Or, were a lad as a youth.

http://www.wtvp.org/headlines/13.03....ael_mosley.asp

http://www.pbs.org/program/michael-mosley/

I read part of your first link and fasting is not an option for me because I'm already at my lowest ideal weight. If I fast, I will become underweight.

I like the Mosley idea of self experimentation though. I just did it. My last blood test indicated a slow thyroid (TSH 8.88 hypothyroidism). I got busy, bought a book, and did lots of research on the subject. Then I decided to make about 4 changes in my diet. This was after my doctor said that diet had nothing to do with it. Some of the changes are complicated to explain so I won't go into the reasoning for the changes. 1) I lowered my B12 supplement 2) I started using some iodized salt 3) I started using less beans 4) I stopped eating raw cauliflower and broccoli (I cook them now.) And there were a few other minor changes.

When I went back to get retested, my results came back perfect.

It's possible that the first test was a lab error but I kind of doubt it. That's the problem with testing. You don't get unlimited tries at it. To be scientific, I would have needed to get retested with no changes in my diet. Then if the result was the same, I could have set about making the changes. Anyway, I'm satisfied that the changes were good and will continue them.

I believe lots of conditions can be changed for the better if people would just put in the effort.

Interesting thread ! I guess I am a little obsessed with eating healthy but am unable to increase my weight of 115# by doing so. Lactose intolerant and gluten intolerant restricts my diet and my obsession with avoiding processed food is another hindrance. :mmmm:

I tried to maintain an anti-inflammatory diet but now have a shoulder inflammation/impingement !! So I'm not so confident anymore about what's healthy or not. :cryin2:

That's the problem, the Dr's tells the patient, oh yea you show XYZ on your tests, take this drug that will fix it.

So we became a pill popping society in a way. The hell with the drug side effects.

High cholesterol, sugar, blood pressure no problem take these 99 drugs and keep the same lifestyle you like........until U wind up in ER or looking at the wrong side of the grass.

Not saying there no place for drugs, but a diet & exercise program can beat so many things, to say nothing about the number of folks here carrying an extra 50lbs +++++ DIET can go long way I'm not saying just vegan there other choices (not as good) but will help.

:mmmm:

More on little known Orthorexia
 

I just re read your above post as I honestly know people who fit this profile, Gracie. This was a good find on your part. We knew a brilliant young woman who attended an engineering university but who though stick thin would ask the waitress for just a "cup of hot water" when we'd take her out for dinner.......the waitress would ask, "You want a teabag with that hot water, right?" and she would respond, "No, too many calories". "Just hot water will be fine". She ate very little but when she did it was raw whole vegetables for the most part. No meat, no dairy.
She was skeletal. Her older sister only ate "rice cakes"...which are dry.

See below for more.......

Orthorexia ? A Little Known Eating Disorder - Facts on Eating-disorder.com

Weighing The Facts: Orthorexia: Fixation On Righteous Eating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa

http://www.orthorexia.info/index.html

Some people seem to feel most comfortable rejecting almost everything and some of us want too much of everything. We're a funny bunch, no?

As long as we are all telling our favorite stories, I just thought of a good one. This was when I was in fourth grade. My mother always made me the best sandwiches, as far as I was concerned. (Back then, in 1950, it seems that most sandwiches were made with white bread because no one knew any better.) She would make extra food for dinner and use the excess for lunches. For example, if we had meatloaf for dinner, we would have meatloaf sandwiches for lunch the next day. Chicken for dinner would yield chicken sandwiches for lunch the next day. And my sandwiches alway contained lettuce and tomatoe slices. I was very happy with it.

There was a kid who sat in front of me in class who always got the same thing every day. It was peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And he kept begging me to trade with him. But, somehow, I knew better. I didn't think jelly was a good lunch. So I said no. When I told my mother, she said I did the right thing by not trading with him. She thought the same as I did that jelly should not be part of a good lunch. She always included a piece of fresh fruit in my lunch rather than cookies, like some of the others had. But did I feel deprived? No! I liked my lunch just the way it was. And I think it was because she took the time to explain the value of a healthy lunch. (At any rate, it was considered healthy at that time, by 1950 standards.)

Search: How many people affected from anorexia nervosa in the U.S.?

Answer: It is estimated that 0.6 % of adults will suffer from anorexia in their lifetime.

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Search: Percentage of Overweight, Obese Americans Swells

Answer: 63.1% of Americans are overweight or obese.

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Question: Of the two problems above, which is the bigger problem that we need to focus on?

P.S. I couldn't find any statistics on orthorexia. However, if it does exist, it may actually be the same as anorexia. In that case, it's nothing new.

First things first: (short-term and long-term disease need focus)

"Anorexia is the most lethal psychiatric disorder, carrying a sixfold increased risk of death -- four times the death risk from major depression.

The odds are even worse for people first diagnosed with anorexia in their 20s. They have 18 times the death risk of healthy people their age, according to an analysis of the medical literature by Jon Arcelus, MD, PhD, of the University of Leicester, England, and colleagues.

The study found anorexia to carry twice the death risk of schizophrenia and three times the death risk of bipolar disorder. Although anorexia is by far the deadliest eating disorder, death rates are also higher than normal in people with bulimia and "eating disorder not otherwise specified" (EDNOS, a common diagnosis for people with a mixture of atypical anorexia and atypical bulimia)...."

Deadliest Psychiatric Disorder: Anorexia

I have never doubted the high risk of death for anorexics. But I doubt that this board would have any helpful impact. First of all, where are they? I've lived in The Villages since 1999 and have only seen one person that I suspected of being anorexic. And I say "suspected" because she might have had something other than anorexia. For example, she might have had inflammatory bowel disease (IBD).

But assuming you could find someone with anorexia, how would you propose to be of help? Don't they need professional help? And looking at the big picture, what is the health care cost of anorexia in the U.S.? Then compare that cost with the U.S. health care cost for the overweight and obese.

That would make for an interesting comparison and might help to put things in proper perspective.

Anorexia is a "control issue".........whereas overweight is often from lack of exercise while consuming more calories than is needed for a sedentary lifestyle ....or for those who find it painful to move due to arthritis, etc.
Anorexia nervosa: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com

A true anorexic is not hard to spot , but they often wear very baggy clothes to hide their bones.......perhaps not in Florida, but definitely in the northern states.........

Orthorexia — When eating healthy goes awry - MayoClinic.com
Orthorexia When eating healthy goes awry Mayo Clinic

You have posted this link before and I have pointed out that the author herself has stated the following: "....[Orthorexia] is not yet a clinically recognized term or disorder...."

It's a bogus disease; read the following link.

http://www.rawveganradio.com/healthy...ting-disorder/

MODERATION ?????? It's an individual thing. I know myself better than anyone else and like Clint Eastwood said in his role of Dirty Harry, "a man has to know his limitations". I know I have an addictive personality and must avoid what I need to since moderation doesn't work for me. It's all or nothing. If for example I had a chocolate chip cookie I would tell myself that I already blew it so I'd have the rest of the box.

You raised a good point and I think it's the reason why close to 80% of diets fail. People have been told (promoted by the fast food industry) that they should be able to eat all their favorite foods in moderation. But it's just not realistic. Today, fast-foods are an addiction for most people and the fast food industry doesn't want that "gravy-train" to stop. If more and more people get the idea that they have to eliminate certain foods altogether, fast-food industry profits could take a big hit. So, what to do? Nip it in the bud by stigmatizing healthy eaters as being Orthorexic.

Do you think it's possible that Anorexics also consider themselves "careful eaters"?

I've never heard people say "eat with moderation" meaning that one should "be able to all their favorite foods in moderation". What I think it means is "don't starve and deprive yourself" and "don't pig out, either"! To me, eating a "moderate" amount of a fattening food means a "reasonable" amount....not too much, and not "none" or "so little that you keep on craving it and so you keep shoving substitutes in that do not help". If somebody craves a steak, a lettuce salad is not going to help. So in other words, have a steak now and then--not often--and don't make it a 3 pound one, but make it a "moderate" sized one with a "moderate" amount of fat that can be trimmed off once it has provided some flavor to the meat.

In the past, there have been people saying "everything in moderation". But, of course, they never quite state how it really works. And no one ever questioned them about it. So it's all left up to one's imagination. With no guidelines, I take it to mean "everything".

Many years ago, I studied the Zone philosophy by Dr. Sears. It had its good points and bad points. One good thing about it was that it offered concrete guidelines. For example, a woman, being generally smaller than a man, would be allowed to eat a 3 oz portion of meat. A man would be allowed a 4 oz. portion. There were also guidlines for fat and carbs.

But since I moved on I have found other diet regimens that don't require animal protein and I don't feel at all deprived. I call myself a vegan, but I do allow myself a small amount of animal protein. For example, 3 jumbo (omega-3) eggs per week (one every other day during the week) and about 3 ounces ounces of salmon per week. I started on the eggs about 3 months ago because Egglands Best eggs are rich in iodine and I needed a little more iodine to bring my thyroid function up to normal. I also started using a small amount of iodized salt. My doctor had told me that diet wouldn't make any difference but I proved him wrong.

I'll tell you something that most people refuse to believe: I don't crave fast food and I really like the natural whole foods that I eat every day. My diet consists of fresh fruit, non-starchy vegetables, legumes, nuts, and whole grains. I use a small amount of olive oil and lemon juice as a dressing for salads, and a small amount of olive oil to flavor soups.

The definition of moderation is very simple and easy to understand. "The avoidance of excess or extremes".

perhaps in the dictionary, but with food most don't draw the line where they should.

If folks could do it do U think so many would be over weight?

Moderation is word used by people who don't have will power, it's an excuse.

is it one cookie or 6, next time is it.......

I "hear you" but , in my own opinion, I would think that many when they say "moderation" are referring to the fact that on a daily basis they would adhere to a sensible diet (whatever that may be for them personally) but they would enjoy "other foods" when celebrating an occasion with family and friends.....again, whether it be a holiday dinner or an evening out.
Just my opinion.

To me, moderation would not mean indulging in ice cream for dessert at every meal, or even each night...........but never say never......in other words, not so strict that one can never enjoy a certain food or dessert.

We hardly eat beef anymore...........but if we were having a barbecue, I would indulge in a grilled hamburger.........

Also, when one has a family that visits.........one has to think of all the varied "tastes" and make something for everyone.......

If one lives alone, it's a lot easier to stick to a more rigid routine..........

But I totally understand all of those who proclaim "All things in moderation".......

There are folks who could eat a thin sliver of cheesecake at a celebratory meal........while there are others who could devour the entire cheesecake.

15 years ago I lost 20 lbs on Weight Watchers. I have not gained any of the weight back. I am 5'2" and weigh 110 lbs. I eat everything I want per the WW plan in moderation. What is my definition of moderation? Last week I had a craving for Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. We went, I ordered a slice, ate 2 bites and gave the rest away to my table mates. But I agree, if you crave steak, a salad won't satisfy you. Portion control is important. When I go to a restaurant, I order what I want, ask for a box before I get my meal and cut my dinner in half, place it under my chair and enjoy my meal. Works for me.

Very sensible way of coping with an over abundance of food......

Not to mention, cheesecake is very rich and very caloric......so a bite or two is satisfying enough.......

You are obviously doing something right.

Good question. That may very well be true but they break some very important rules of health. 1) They go way too low on the BMI scale and 2) they deprive themselves of the necessary nutrients needed to support life.

Gimme a break.

I think moderation, for those who truly employ it, is indicative of a very strong willpower.

No, it's fact

Yep.

If one has to have junk food in moderation, for enjoyment, it sounds like an addiction. Just the fact that you have to have it periodically is very telling. There are alcoholics who only get drunk on weekends. Are they not still alcoholics? If you think it's not an addiction, try not having it anymore and see what happens.

Agree, try it with your favorite unhealthy food

All this just from somebody saying they do something in "moderation"?? To say that's a stretch is a moderate understatement at the very least.

I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a fanatic about it......I eat meat!:pepper2:

then U R not

To you I do believe it's fact.

So you're a Steve Martin vegetarian...he always said: "I'm a vegetarian. Oh sure...I have a cheeseburger now and then." :^)