My kids live in Canada, and this is true. Furthermore, speak to almost any Canadian, they value their healthcare system highly. It's not without fault but better than most but it began 50-60 years ago when perhaps things were simpler and so many others (pharmaceutical, insurance companies etc. etc.) were not making huge amounts off those sick and dying. Another difference is that Canada unlike here has encouraged more general practitioners than specialists. I heard 80-20% with GPs front liners the largest group...and they do more in office). We have a major shortage of GPs to our detriment.

You cannot compare the Canadian system negatively or positively to ours as it's different and has an almost 60 year head start.

Oh, but your doctor--the kind of doctor I value, too--IS "beholden to a higher authority", which is Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

I would count on nothing when it comes to government and private insurers, because both are in bed together via politicians and lobbyists!

See the full story on this, the most-read article this week on this blog, "Social media's leading physician voice":

How MACRA will decimate the private practice physician

"....Recently, I attended an “informational listening session” for rural physicians, sponsored by the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) to learn more about the new MACRA proposal known as MIPS/APM (Merit-Based Incentive Payment System/Alternative Payment Model.) This plan will penalize 7 out of 10 small 1 to 2 physician practices in this country. Why? Because we will be overwhelmed complying with statistical reporting demands that do nothing to enhance the quality of care, instead of spending precious time seeing patients.

I inquired as to how CMS proposes to ease our burden of data reporting.

“I am not sure, but leave a website comment and someone might consider your needs.”

Not likely. A family practice physician described how technical mistakes at the claims clearinghouse froze her Medicare payments for eight months.

“Thank God my father died and left me a small inheritance,” she said.

Otherwise, her solo practice would have gone bankrupt. Is this the future of medical care in this country? Over 50 percent of her patients are on Medicare. If we allow this MACRA atrocity to go into effect, who will be left to care for the sick, disabled, and elderly?...."

How MACRA will decimate the private practice physician

Wow-TVH temper tantrums
 

Mike - I tend to agree with the first part of you post. However, when you initiate discussion about USF & Moffitt, I think your premise is not correct. Let's start with Moffitt. It is a great cancer research institute- but it's primary relationship, I believe, was with The Villages Regional Hospital and the developer. The promise was that Moffitt would develop a second campus, somewhat equivalent to its Tampa campus. That was never going to happen. The cost involved in duplicating research and teaching facilities in TV could never happen - too cost prohibitive. In addition, it is highly unlikely that world class researchers would wish to relocate to a semi-rural area in central FL. After all, this is not Gainesville.

As far as USF goes, it's faculty practice plan (I.e., it's docs) most likely over promised and definitely under delivered. Their expectation, IMO, was that the hospital or some entity would highly subsidize them, so that their practice fees represent profit. This is a common model with faculty physicians and their outreach efforts. Again, though, it was probably difficult for the practice plan to convince research/teacher/practitioners to locate here. The itinerant schedule used instead likely did not suit the patients or referring physicians.

IMO both organizations saw $$$ that were not going to happen. And it was not from the MA plans. Both organizations seek private funds whenever possible because of the uncertainty associated with public funding. As I noted above , these organizations like to develop relationships with entities that will fund physician base salaries at a minimum, then generate fee for service or per member per month fees that represent organizational profit. They believe they are superior to community physicians offering the same or similar services - sometimes that is true, sometimes it's not.

Moffitt, as I would have expected, learned that patients would travel to Tampa for advanced care. Therefore, why duplicate their Tampa campus here. So they essentially trashed their agreement with TVRH and the developer.

USF was unable to generate significant referrals from physicians who weren't part of the Villages Health System. After all, they came here to assist a group of docs (the Villages Health System) that was competing with community docs with existing practices.

The developer and those that run TVRH are intelligent and business-like. The $$$ were not happening and USF/Moffitt finally figured that out. Value is in the eye of the beholder and I believe USF and Moffitt were on the negative side of the equation...just my opinion, and some career based knowledge.

Of course Canadian health care isn't free. It's funded by residents of Canada.
However Canadians don't have monthly health care premiums and health care is available to all without charge.
I also refer to The Villages as having "free golf for life". Obviously also funded by residents.

Wow-TVH temper tantrums
 

And their yearly cart fees. [emoji41] Feel better Bare.


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Thanks for the good wishes, I appreciate them. :highfive:
I'm really sorry I ever got involved in defending "free" health care in Canada.
This is a thread about The Villages Health Care System, and obviously feelings run deep.
It's not the time to be discussing international health care policies.

I am a working family practice physician looking at retiring to TV in 3 months. The original post actually contains some very believable information. This is not isolated to TV but is a nationwide phenomena. Budget cutting, pink slips, higher patient loads and a lot more documentation has been the norm since the Affordable Care Act (quite misnamed) started to bite. When I first bought in TV about 4 years ago I heard the flowering reports from friends of the "Marcus Welby" style of health care. I considered it a fairy tale as the only way to provide that level of service is either concierge medicine (say an extra 3-7K a year) or a white knight willing to heavily subsidize the plan. Otherwise its not (to use one of the current fashionable buzzwords) sustainable. Did they really think they had found the holy grail no one else has found? Two patients and hour won't pay for a medical assistant, receptionist, triage specialist and the100k a year for the electronic medical record. I don't know what UHC is paying for the standard medical visit (99214 ICDM code) but I doubt it covers 30 min. Economics says if you want to stay afloat you see at least 4 patients per hour and 6 if you can do it. Specialists can give more time but they charge a lot more. A 5 min dermatology visit can run $400 retail which is reduced by insurance company contract to $80.
One of the new wrinkles of Obamacare is physicians and hospitals have part of their income determined by "patient satisfaction". This is a total wild card as few send the surveys in unless they have an ax to grind. In short medical systems are cutting costs and consolidating because of declining revenues. TV is not immune, and its not finished yet. Shortage of providers is on the horizon which will push wait times into months. Urgent Care waits will typically be 4 hours or more and ER's will be jam packed. A good analogy is kind of like a gallon of milk is only $1 - if you can find anyone who has it.

You have every right to discuss the Canadian system. It has its positives and negatives, but more pluses than minuses. Some of us who posted on this thread know a little about your system, but you know more. No harm in sticking up for something you believe in.

But could you please bring some lobster back when you return to TV? I won't tell GE!


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I, for one, do not see why someone who is obviously not affected by this Medicare Advantage fiasco (for lack of a better word) is commenting at all! It's perfectly sane that those of us that are affected can express and share our disappointment! No, we did not receive "in writing" a promise that we would always be covered by VHS but it was pretty strongly IMPLIED since they had built and we're building beautiful and permanent offices and hiring many staff members! I do not blame the developer at all and I do understand that it comes down to making payroll BUT BUT BUT I do resent the manner with which it was presented with absolutely NO mention or "we're sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you"! It's not as if it weren't IMPLIED (I believe someone loves this word) that we would enjoy the Marcus Welby concept. After all, how many times did we hear it? Again, if it doesn't affect you, just BUTT OUT! Skip the thread! Move on!

Buffalo Jim: In all due respect and for the simple reason of offering an alternative view ,in that same vein then I ask what or why would a resident feel the need to defend the Developer, The Villages or anything remotely related to the aforementioned? I long ago gave up the idea that people think, feel and emote the same. In this case this employee may be responding out of some sense of loyalty to her employer while perhaps other employees in her /his office may agree with posters who are angry. Also patients, customers etc do not always experience the same thing. A business may be performing at their peak one day and for a variety of reasons fail the next. Customers can only judge by their experience. I believe the same principle applies to residents here

To thine own self be true

Your right "if you buy here you can keep our healthcare system" Imply in any language if not kept means bait and switch. The marketing people are good at what they do...They are so good, they could sell two milking machines to a farmer that owns one cow.:D

And I believe everyone has the right to express an opinion about everything, whether they're directly involved or not. And actually, I could have been directly affected had we gone with the Marcus Welby marketing campaign and signed up with them at the beginning. And in the end it's indicative of how things are run in TV, and I have opinions on that. Finally, I believe I have every right to voice opinions on anything here, as this is a forum for people to exchange ideas.

I have an opinion on abortion rights, too, even though I no longer could get pregnant...

And those actions by you would be considered dishonest/unethical by an honest person...which makes me wonder about someone that actually thinks those actions are perfectly acceptable.

You've made my point! We have every right to express our opinions. Why should we be accused of whining?

Great post! I agree that people have a right to express their opinion without fear. That is what makes the United States such a great country. On another note I realized recently that three years ago I not only joined the Villages Healthcare system, but I also joined the Villages Citizens Bank. Since they don't accept my insurance anymore I am not going to stay with their bank anymore. I am moving my accounts to Chase. Freedom!

I couldn't pick GE out of a line-up of two, but I have always thought and continue to think of him as an honorable man.

And sometimes you think you know someone....I sure wouldn't buy a used car from someone who thinks what TVH is doing is acceptable behavior.

Excellent points and observations. :thumbup:

I agree. VERY much agree. And I think that there are a couple or three who always stir things up. I wouldn't recognize any of them. But I would hug the eagle and frown at the smart alecks but we may never know what their real names are. Golfing Eagles has introduced himself in a PM. My husband says anonymous people can say anything.

This kind of statement from me is usually followed by a barrage of comments about how dangerous it is to disclose your identity on the internet. I say the nasty ones never come to the Crispers meetings.

I would have loved to be part of Villages health. It is very hard to find a PCP here in TV who you can understand, has sterling credentials, (remember the doc that was arrested for drunk driving and had loose pills in her car?) is board certified or isn't an alternative medicine quack.

As for defending The Villages., I think it is a great, well run and making it's owners very rich. AND that ****es a lot of people off. They are jealous, but the owners risked their OWN money for expansion. They could have chosen to stop at any time but they are employing people who have families.....for one.

Rubicon says that you shouldn't have positive feelings for a corporation...I can have any kind of feelings I want. I am old enough to recognize when something is well run and the owners are still working. Some call that greed, others call it success. I like it. I say Yay Villages. Good for you. :shrug:

I think The Villages are run far better than the country is.

It looks like affordable health care is an impossible dream and it looks like The Villages tried and failed to provide it. They failed. They aren't God and they aren't your mom.

You set your standards pretty low there my friend.

How do you define "failed"? They have apparently decided that an MA plan for those on Medicare will be better than the status quo but I hardly call that failing. Failing is when they close up shop because they don't have enough patients. That may happen but I wouldn't bet on it. Individuals must personally decide whether they are getting quality care.

I am not on Medicare and they take our insurance so nothing has changed for us. I am satisfied with my PCP although I have gone "off the reservation" when I lost faith in the specialists at The Villages Health. Having a plan that would not allow me to go "off the reservation" would probably decrease my satisfaction and I understand why many people are troubled by the move to MA. For the time being, we are fine with The Villages Health for the routine stuff.

Wow! I've read some pros, some neutrality and a lot of cons on this insurance change; people, if the developers are doing this for The Villages, they were here long before you, with their decisions and they will be here long after you, with their decisions. You either stay status quo and find a new physician or change your insurance and stay with your physician; time to move on and get over it. Full disclosure, we have Federal Government BC/BS and can stay where we are but my mother-in-law will have to make changes; it is what it is, my wife is having to make the changes for her, but life goes on.

Sounds like a lot of houses will be going on the market. And, many new builds will not be sold.

Villages Health
 

Yes, she said it all-really, in a nutshell. We are so spoiled!!

Since I didn't see an emoticon I am assuming you are serious. I doubt that will happen.

Really? When we bought here, the attraction was the myriad of activities available for each of us, the beauty of the entire development, and the attractive homes. We had to change our health care plan because it was local to our former home. When VHS started, we changed again. Now, we may have to change again. But I wouldn't sell and move because of it. Too many very good friends and acquaintances here. And I think TV sells itself with or without VHS.

Why, are you a resident, and know some secret info. We sold our first house in 3 days, find that anywhere in the country

I'm assuming you think there will be a mass exodus from The Villages due to the TVH announcement?
And a boycott of new builds? I don't think that will happen. :ohdear:

The average person isn't thinking about Doctors and insurance. They are thinking about golf and pools and Rec Center activities and clubs etc.

TY, Joyce. I think outlaw missed my point I would not
consider misleading info acceptable, I was simply trying to draw the line between IMPLYING, VERBALLY PROMISING and getting it in WRITING. Implying is the weakest, since it also requires an inference by the listener.

Total nonsense.

New builds are marketed mainly to newbies who are newly retired, ages 55 to 65.

That's a 10-year age group of people who are not on Medicare plans, and therefore they choose their primary doctors the same way they always have, thru their PPO or their HMO plans.

golfing eagles: First, I concur with most here.. enjoy learning from your insightful posts. However, as to the aforementioned I wish I had a nickel for every time we defended a breach of contract lawsuit based on implied promises. An implied promise has been ruled to have changed the written contract in more than one ruling


And you are right in explaining that the health market, etc is driving much of this. However, all things equal I am not aware of another system or group of doctors or single practitioner who will only accept one insurer. As a consumer I am not happy that government or insurance is stepping in between my doctor and me. etc etc etc. In network are creating a real pricing problem for out of networks. ACA is replacing medicare pushing for a single payer system

Personally I have no dog in this fight because my canvasing when I first moved here led me to the Munroe System and its a losing argument to go against anything that remotely connects to TV.

Personal Best Regards:

Whoa! I may have misunderstood this. Are you saying that if you have Fed Govt BSBC you can stay with TVH? Maybe that's why we haven't received the letter. :confused:

Hi GG

"Thou shalt not have false gods before me:D

A person can love a corporation but a corporation can't and won't love you back.

A Developer by any other name is a Developer be it Donald Trump or Gary Morse. They are good at what they do and they are clever in their marketing. They leverage their businesses over a long period and have a return thrice over...maybe more

So when it comes to flashpoints here between The Villages of Lake Sumter Inc ( Developer) or District ( government) I default to residents as it aligns with my financial interest, unless there is something I view as being unfair to the other side. Its business and its not personal and I have serious doubt any of it has anything to do with jealousy nor do I view the business side of it as greed..... "whatever the traffic will bear is capitalism"

You may not always be right but you will always be Gracie...so don't change we need a variety of different opinions to get to the truth of things.

Most of us on TOTV are just passing time and trying to keep our minds and fingers alert.

Stay well

Personal Best Regards:

Rubicon says that you shouldn't have positive feelings for a corporation...I can have any kind of feelings I want. I am old enough to recognize when something is well run and the owners are still working. Some call that greed, others call it success. I like it. I say Yay Villages. Good for you.

I think The Villages are run far better than the country is.

Below are the "Accepted Insurances' at TVHealth. There ARE other insurer's plans accepted.

As I stated above, there is a significant new population here or coming here, who are 55-65 years old, and will not be involved with Medicare for another 7, 8, 9, or 10 years! And if the politicians have their way, newbies under 65 will probably be looking at 70 years old being Medicare age, anyway!

Or, like us, they are still employed and we have employer-based PPO coverage that is in this accepted list.

Note: Medicare enrollees are not the only people living here!

It would be foolish NOT to market to people younger than Medicare age, as they are bringing private insurer dollars in where Medicare reimbursement falls short of operating costs.

Accepted Insurances:

If you are eligible for Medicare, we want you to know that the only Medicare Advantage plans The Villages Health participates in are those offered by UnitedHealthcare®.

UnitedHealthcare® The Villages® MedicareComplete® (HMO) Plan 1
UnitedHealthcare® The Villages® MedicareComplete® (HMO) Plan 2
AARP® Medicare Complete Choice® (Regional PPO)
AARP® Medicare Complete Choice® (HMO)
United Healthcare® Medicare Advantage Dual Complete
We continue to Participate with the following Commercial Insurances:

Avmed
Blue Cross & Blue Shield
Cigna
Multiplan
Private Healthcare System/PHCS
Tricare Standard
United Healthcare

Accepted Insurance by The Villages Health

Wow-TVH temper tantrums
 

I agree with much of your post, rubicon. But not this part, stated in such absolute terms.

Corporations exist to make money. And I have no problem with that at all. But corporations are also made up of people.

It may not always happen, but the love can be in both directions.

And besides, according to Citizen's United, corporations are people, too:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Does anyone have a copy of the 2016 UHC plan F and plan N enrollment guides. These are the supplement plans that we have, and I threw away these documents when we signed up (we were grandfathered....). Now I am in the process of comparing the 2016 "accepted" plans against what we currently have. I would only need these for a couple of hours or up to 2 days, thank you.