[retiredguy123]

In my opinion, the NFL really blew this from day one. They should have fired Kaepernick immediately. Not the team, the NFL. That would have ended the whole problem.

[mac9]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I never saw kneeling as a sign of disrespect. To me, it was honoring the most basic tenet of this great nation — the right to peacefully protest. I was sorry then and am sorry now that kneeling has been determined to be a denial of everything we stand for. My father was a career Army officer, having worked up the ranks to full bird. My brother served three tours in Nam because he felt his knowledge could save an American life or two. Dad died before the Vietnam protests. My brother felt that protesting, including burning the flag, was exactly what he was fighting for and what America was all about.

The NFL owners took the easy way out. I wouldn’t be surprised if all players of many teams chose to stay in the locker rooms. It wasn’t until the ‘90’s that it was even required that all players be out on the field for the anthem. Some will stay inside as a protest. Some will stay inside to keep peace amongst their teammates. Some will stay inside just because they don’t want to be outside before they have to.

Watch. Don’t watch. Your choice. Your right. But at least understand that protest is what this nation is founded on. I may not agree with your viewpoint, but I will never deny you the right to voice that viewpoint so long as your opinion and actions are nonviolent and don’t advocate violence. But the owners are being cowards to the nth degree. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling during the anthem is an abomination. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling is a peaceful protest based on the very basic principles of our forefathers. This is a sorry middle ground.

So true, Red. So true.

[Kenswing]

The stadium is the work place of these football players. If the owners don't want them protesting at their place of employment they shouldn't be protesting. How many of us would get fired if we staged protests at work?

If they want to protest on their own time away from work, more power to them..

[rustyp]

[QUOTE=Nucky;1546852]2BNTV, "All players should stand for the Anthem".
I went to a 50's music concert at a Recreation Center several weeks back named Forever Young and before they started the festivities they asked everyone to stand to Salute the Flag.

This is a very slippery slope. In a public forum not everyone is a US citizen. Why would a citizen of another country "salute" and "pledge allegiance" to our flag. Would you salute and pledge your allegiance to their flag ? This actually happens in The Villages at some of the Rec Center clubs. The extreme patriotic types take offense that people are in the room without hand over heart and not reciting the words. They haven't given a thought to the fact that they may not be from this country. The national anthem thing is easier - a non citizen can simply stand no hand over heart and not sing - it seems we accept that as respectful enough, so far!

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I never saw kneeling as a sign of disrespect. To me, it was honoring the most basic tenet of this great nation — the right to peacefully protest. I was sorry then and am sorry now that kneeling has been determined to be a denial of everything we stand for. My father was a career Army officer, having worked up the ranks to full bird. My brother served three tours in Nam because he felt his knowledge could save an American life or two. Dad died before the Vietnam protests. My brother felt that protesting, including burning the flag, was exactly what he was fighting for and what America was all about.

The NFL owners took the easy way out. I wouldn’t be surprised if all players of many teams chose to stay in the locker rooms. It wasn’t until the ‘90’s that it was even required that all players be out on the field for the anthem. Some will stay inside as a protest. Some will stay inside to keep peace amongst their teammates. Some will stay inside just because they don’t want to be outside before they have to.

Watch. Don’t watch. Your choice. Your right. But at least understand that protest is what this nation is founded on. I may not agree with your viewpoint, but I will never deny you the right to voice that viewpoint so long as your opinion and actions are nonviolent and don’t advocate violence. But the owners are being cowards to the nth degree. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling during the anthem is an abomination. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling is a peaceful protest based on the very basic principles of our forefathers. This is a sorry middle ground.

Not to even mention, all of those who need to educate themselves...on the REASON kneeling was started in the first place.

Real easy for those who will never face/have never faced the discrimination and racism...that those kneeling are trying to highlight.

Those trying to change the narrative on WHY this form of protest is actually taking place...is exactly why it is needed.

And then let's talk about what those people buying beer/hotdogs/working the counters/etc. and even what the cameramen etc. are doing during the national anthem.

Why no faux outrage about them?

Never mind...we all know why.

'Flaming hypocrites'... comes to mind.

[eweissenbach]

It occurs to me that many of the same people who would like to deny protesters their freedom of speech are the same people who defend the second amendment with absolutely no restrictions. The protesters I have heard from have consistently stated that it is not about disrespect for the country or the military, but simply to bring attention to some specific issues in the only way they know to get people's attention. Is it the best or even the only way? That is debatable, but it isn't illegal, and it doesn't harm anyone. The question of being employed so they must follow the employer's direction without question is just wrong. The employer can require one to do many things but if he/she tries to require you to do something that is morally or legally wrong, you refuse, and he fires you, he will most likely be defending himself, likely unsuccessfully, in a wrongful termination suit. It is my opinion that the players will not let this stand, and will demand it be mediated at the next collective bargaining agreement. I personally would prefer the players protest in a more socially acceptable way, but I understand the argument that no one listens when not confronted in an uncomfortable way.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

It occurs to me that many of the same people who would like to deny protesters their freedom of speech are the same people who defend the second amendment with absolutely no restrictions. The protesters I have heard from have consistently stated that it is not about disrespect for the country or the military, but simply to bring attention to some specific issues in the only way they know to get people's attention. Is it the best or even the only way? That is debatable, but it isn't illegal, and it doesn't harm anyone. The question of being employed so they must follow the employer's direction without question is just wrong. The employer can require one to do many things but if he/she tries to require you to do something that is morally or legally wrong, you refuse, and he fires you, he will most likely be defending himself, likely unsuccessfully, in a wrongful termination suit. It is my opinion that the players will not let this stand, and will demand it be mediated at the next collective bargaining agreement. I personally would prefer the players protest in a more socially acceptable way, but I understand the argument that no one listens when not confronted in an uncomfortable way.

At least, some people will notice that the football players are taking a stand about something.

This commissioner did not handle the sexual assault mess with various players very well either if memory serves. How Roger Goodell mishandled domestic violence and what NFL has changed since - NY Daily News

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I never saw kneeling as a sign of disrespect. To me, it was honoring the most basic tenet of this great nation — the right to peacefully protest. I was sorry then and am sorry now that kneeling has been determined to be a denial of everything we stand for. My father was a career Army officer, having worked up the ranks to full bird. My brother served three tours in Nam because he felt his knowledge could save an American life or two. Dad died before the Vietnam protests. My brother felt that protesting, including burning the flag, was exactly what he was fighting for and what America was all about.

The NFL owners took the easy way out. I wouldn’t be surprised if all players of many teams chose to stay in the locker rooms. It wasn’t until the ‘90’s that it was even required that all players be out on the field for the anthem. Some will stay inside as a protest. Some will stay inside to keep peace amongst their teammates. Some will stay inside just because they don’t want to be outside before they have to.

Watch. Don’t watch. Your choice. Your right. But at least understand that protest is what this nation is founded on. I may not agree with your viewpoint, but I will never deny you the right to voice that viewpoint so long as your opinion and actions are nonviolent and don’t advocate violence. But the owners are being cowards to the nth degree. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling during the anthem is an abomination. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling is a peaceful protest based on the very basic principles of our forefathers. This is a sorry middle ground.

[Challenger]

Pure hypocrisy by the league. Stand on the field and look up at the fans during the Anthem. Many are not at attention , others talking, drinking, eating, rocking, wearing their hats, no hand over heart. The stands is where you find disrespect. Taking a knee, does not in any way disrespect veterans (I am one with 36 yrs service , regular and reserve) Disrespect is the many super bowl hideous presentations of the anthem . What would happen if hundreds of disrespectful fans were ushered out?????

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Pure hypocrisy by the league. Stand on the field and look up at the fans during the Anthem. Many are not at attention , others talking, drinking, eating, rocking, wearing their hats, no hand over heart. The stands is where you find disrespect. Taking a knee, does not in any way disrespect veterans (I am one with 36 yrs service , regular and reserve) Disrespect is the many super bowl hideous presentations of the anthem . What would happen if hundreds of disrespectful fans were ushered out?????

In Arrowhead Stadium the majority of fans sing "and the home of the CHIEFS! I and many others find that disrespectful.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Pure hypocrisy by the league. Stand on the field and look up at the fans during the Anthem. Many are not at attention , others talking, drinking, eating, rocking, wearing their hats, no hand over heart. The stands is where you find disrespect. Taking a knee, does not in any way disrespect veterans (I am one with 36 yrs service , regular and reserve) Disrespect is the many super bowl hideous presentations of the anthem . What would happen if hundreds of disrespectful fans were ushered out?????

Very nice to see a wide variety of opinions on this as it shows that Freedom of Speech is very much on Talk of the Villages.

Some of those singers are fairly disrespectful of the National Anthem as well. As you wrote.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I never saw kneeling as a sign of disrespect. To me, it was honoring the most basic tenet of this great nation — the right to peacefully protest. I was sorry then and am sorry now that kneeling has been determined to be a denial of everything we stand for. My father was a career Army officer, having worked up the ranks to full bird. My brother served three tours in Nam because he felt his knowledge could save an American life or two. Dad died before the Vietnam protests. My brother felt that protesting, including burning the flag, was exactly what he was fighting for and what America was all about.

The NFL owners took the easy way out. I wouldn’t be surprised if all players of many teams chose to stay in the locker rooms. It wasn’t until the ‘90’s that it was even required that all players be out on the field for the anthem. Some will stay inside as a protest. Some will stay inside to keep peace amongst their teammates. Some will stay inside just because they don’t want to be outside before they have to.

Watch. Don’t watch. Your choice. Your right. But at least understand that protest is what this nation is founded on. I may not agree with your viewpoint, but I will never deny you the right to voice that viewpoint so long as your opinion and actions are nonviolent and don’t advocate violence. But the owners are being cowards to the nth degree. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling during the anthem is an abomination. They don’t want to offend those patriots who think kneeling is a peaceful protest based on the very basic principles of our forefathers. This is a sorry middle ground.

FANTASTIC POST. I AGREE totally.

And to those who say this is not about race...sorry, it IS...race and then opposed by personal grievance.

Kneeling silently instead of flying the flag upside down as the Tea Party protestors did seems maybe a bit milder, but this was an issue created and which would have died on its own if left to its own path.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Bucco

FANTASTIC POST. I AGREE totally.

And to those who say this is not about race...sorry, it IS...race and then opposed by personal grievance.

Kneeling silently instead of flying the flag upside down as the Tea Party protestors did seems maybe a bit milder, but this was an issue created and which would have died on its own if left to its own path.

Yep!

[graciegirl]

We were taught as small children, by our teachers and our parents and our pastors to stand when the colors went by. We were taught to respect the law, and our teachers and older people in authority, when we were kids.

We became girl scouts and eagle scouts and some of us became involved in the military where this respect was drilled in and ingrained further. We were taught to remove our hat if we were a man and cover our heart as well, all of us.

Using these traditions to be an activist is not making people listen, it is mostly making people either sad or angry.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Yep!

Nope. They are making it about race. It isn't.

It is about the respect for the symbol of our country.

I think most of us, no matter how upset we were over some issue, would never use those things taught to us to respect to air our grievances.

Our family, our country, our values, our respect for the law are things most people hold dear. If someone believes that police officers are unfairly targeting people because of their race, then wear a pin, march, wear a bracelet, rent a billboard, buy TV Time, do a miniseries on PBS, write a book, form clubs, tutor in schools, give money to endangered youth or to organizations supporting them.