[Fore!]

Originally Posted by GeriS

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.

Amen!

[Fore!]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

Thank you! Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean that they cannot get CoVid and give it to another person. Also, people who have been vaccinated have died. Vaccination is not a guarantee. Get over it people. There are those who have reasons ( medical or otherwise) not to get vaccinated.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by GeriS

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.

Yep. I wonder, of the supposed 31.2% of the people that are fully vaccinated, what percentage of those cruise on a regular basis?

"As of 6 a.m. EDT May 1, a total of 103,422,555 Americans had been fully vaccinated, or 31.2 percent of the country's population, according to the CDC's data."

States ranked by percentage of population fully vaccinated: May 2

[tuccillo]

I don’t have any objections. The current rules make sense regardless of how long you are staying, despite your claim. The rules are likely to change, perhaps going to a requirement for being vaccinated instead of multiple COVID tests, as I already stated. I am not sure I see whatever point you are attempting to make. The rules are what the rules are until they change.

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I don't understand your objection. You state that no cruise ships are currently going to the BVI and the rules will likely change in June when the BVI may start accepting cruise ships. I noted that the current rules only made sense for visitors staying for more than a day and I wondered how they might change for visits of only a few hours. We seem to be in agreement that these rules won't work for visitors from cruise ships and may change when cruise ships are again allowed.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

That 5% is only for people who had shot 1 and had a documented allergic reaction at the vaccination location.

And attesting means that you must prove to the cruiseline you are vaccinated or have a medical reaction.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

That 5% is only for people who had shot 1 and had a documented allergic reaction at the vaccination location.

And attesting means that you must prove to the cruiseline you are vaccinated or have a medical reaction.

Attesting, according to the dictionary, means you state that something is true. If the requirement was for proof then the CDC should have used a different word such as "document."

Of course, what the CDC writes and how that gets interpreted or implemented can be entirely different.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Attesting, according to the dictionary, means you state that something is true. If the requirement was for proof then the CDC should have used a different word such as "document."

Of course, what the CDC writes and how that gets interpreted or implemented can be entirely different.

The cruiseline will require the proof from the passenger. Then they (the cruiseline) will attest to the CDC. The ports may require the attestation OR the actual proof.

So, no, you don't have to provide proof to the CDC, only to the cruiseline.

Time will tell.. The ships won't take ANY chances. They'd rather leave someone behind because the paperwork looks dodgy than take any chance of an outbreak.

[Tee4ta]

Vaccines are always a balance between a public health imperative and individual freedoms. The government has to MANDATE certain vaccines (i.e. to attend public school) because the risk of disability/death to one particular individual is so low that many will likely refuse the vaccine for themselves or their children. If too many refuse, an outbreak could be devastating to many. Generally, we vaccinate for the good of society, not for ourselves, because outbreaks of diseases with mandated vaccines are so infrequent. Covid certainly falls within the range of transmissibility and death/disability rates overall of other diseases that have mandated vaccines (but very low for the individual, so unsurprisingly many are refusing to be vaccinated) so I am interested to see if the vaccine will be mandated in more settings than cruise ships, colleges. Maybe elder care settings?

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Tee4ta

Vaccines are always a balance between a public health imperative and individual freedoms.

The government has to MANDATE certain vaccines (i.e. to attend public school) because the risk of disability/death to one particular individual is so low that many will likely refuse the vaccine for themselves or their children.

If too many refuse, an outbreak could be devastating to many. Generally, we vaccinate for the good of society, not for ourselves, because outbreaks of diseases with mandated vaccines are so infrequent.

Covid certainly falls within the range of transmissibility and death/disability rates overall of other diseases that have mandated vaccines (but very low for the individual, so unsurprisingly many are refusing to be vaccinated) so I am interested to see if the vaccine will be mandated in more settings than cruise ships, colleges. Maybe elder care settings?

I think you nailed it. Most Universities have already made it mandatory for Fall semester, and I would not be surprised if once the vaccine is approved for use in schools, it will become part of the mandate as well. It's the only intelligent thing to do.

And it has been upheld several times by the US Supreme Court.

We may still see outbreaks, but that should be isolate to those who refused to get the protection/vaccine.

Spock always had it right....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

Perhaps you are missing the math.

If 6% of the people who WANT to be passengers are not fully vaccinated or can't show proof of it, then 1/6 of those people will be told their presence is not welcome aboard.

You are a member of that 6%. So you might be culled from the herd at the last minute. They'll probably put you on a waiting list, if you refuse to show proof of immunity. And then, when all the people who DO have vaccines are assigned their staterooms, they'll call you and tell you you're either a) a lucky passenger who gets to go or b) sorry no room at the inn.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Attesting, according to the dictionary, means you state that something is true. If the requirement was for proof then the CDC should have used a different word such as "document."

Of course, what the CDC writes and how that gets interpreted or implemented can be entirely different.

YOU don't have to attest anything at all.

The SHIP has to attest it. And they will cover THEIR butts by requiring proof from their passengers, so that their testimony (which is what it's called when you attest to someone) is based on evidence, not on guestimations.

While some people have no problem with fudging facts to fit their narrative and bypass rules to do whatever they want and to hell with the rules and the needs of the many, most people will either comply honestly, or bow out of the experience entirely.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Perhaps you are missing the math.

If 6% of the people who WANT to be passengers are not fully vaccinated or can't show proof of it, then 1/6 of those people will be told their presence is not welcome aboard.

You are a member of that 6%. So you might be culled from the herd at the last minute. They'll probably put you on a waiting list, if you refuse to show proof of immunity. And then, when all the people who DO have vaccines are assigned their staterooms, they'll call you and tell you you're either a) a lucky passenger who gets to go or b) sorry no room at the inn.

When I called and asked about this, they said that a small percentage of people (<1%) have an allergic reaction to shot #1 and that this gave the leeway for people who only had 1 shot out of the 2 shot regimen. All passengers will still have to provide proof. And the allergic reaction is documented along with the original shot on both the card and the state records.

And, with something like 67% protection from a single shot, it still make the chance of an infection extremely unlikely.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

When I called and asked about this, they said that a small percentage of people (<1%) have an allergic reaction to shot #1 and that this gave the leeway for people who only had 1 shot out of the 2 shot regimen. All passengers will still have to provide proof. And the allergic reaction is documented along with the original shot on both the card and the state records.

And, with something like 67% protection from a single shot, it still make the chance of an infection extremely unlikely.

There are also kids, who can't get vaccinated because they're under the recommended minimum age. You have to account for them being potential passengers as well. They can't have proof of being allergic since that's not the case at all. But their passports/birth certificates would be proof that they are exempt from being vaccinated.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

YOU don't have to attest anything at all.

The SHIP has to attest it. And they will cover THEIR butts by requiring proof from their passengers, so that their testimony (which is what it's called when you attest to someone) is based on evidence, not on guestimations.

While some people have no problem with fudging facts to fit their narrative and bypass rules to do whatever they want and to hell with the rules and the needs of the many, most people will either comply honestly, or bow out of the experience entirely.

I'm pretty sure it's the cruise line company that must file the paperwork. SHIPs are largely incapable of writing.

You are guessing what the cruise line companies will choose to do. You may be right (you're probably right) but at this point you are guessing.

The needs of the many have already been satisfied, it is the needs of the few that are being catered to now. The many have had their vaccinations and are almost entirely safe from the virus. Those who are unsafe are those who have now actively chosen not to be vaccinated.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There are also kids, who can't get vaccinated because they're under the recommended minimum age. You have to account for them being potential passengers as well. They can't have proof of being allergic since that's not the case at all. But their passports/birth certificates would be proof that they are exempt from being vaccinated.

They've already said no kids.. actually they said that the number of kids are so low as not really matter right now.