Vitamin B12
 

Since I'm not a meat eater, I need to take a B12 supplement. But it's a problem trying to figure out how much. Articles I have read recommend 2.4 mcg daily. And I have a vitamin book that recommends the same amount. But when I go to a vitamin store, the smallest amount they have is 500 mcg. tablets.

I think 500mcg. is way too much. I bought some once and cut them in half and then cut them in half again so I ended up with 125mcg. That's still too much in my opinion, but you can't keep cutting them in half. They have it in liquid form but the instructions only say that one full eye dropper equals 1000 mcg. I don't think I would like that method. I would want to know how many mcg. are in one drop.

I know that some older people need a lot more if they are not producing enough stomach acid (hydrochloric acid). But that's not my problem and too much B12 could put other B vitamins out of balance, according to a pharmacist I asked. The vitamin companies used to make it in smaller doses but have decided they don't want to do that anymore.

Getting a blood test only tells if you are deficient or if you have enough. It doesn't tell you how much you should take on a daily basis. If you're not taking enough it could take years for a deficiency to show up.

As if it's not complicated enough, there are two forms of supplemental B12 and one of them (the one I have now) could cause eye problems if you happen to have a predisposition.

I'm not sure but I suspect that too much B12 can lower B6. It seems logical to me that in the process of getting rid of excess B12 your liver might mistakenly get rid of some of its B6 as well, not to mention other B vitamins.

Has anyone solved this problem?

Let me first clarify that I am not a doctor or nutritionist... (I am a nurse...lol)
I am Vegan and also supplement my diet with B12. I take Vegan B12(methylcobalamin) by Deva. I take 1 tab sublingual daily. This was recommended by my medical (non Vegan) doctor and also by the book Vegan for Life (as well s several Vegan Facebook pages). Another way of getting B12 is by eating Nutritional Yeast Flakes (not Brewers Yeast). It has a semi cheesy taste and can be sprinkled on our food.

No solution as I just started taking B12. I was told to take 1000 mg a day and have been doing that for only about two weeks. So far I have observed an increase in energy level. Perhaps I need to read up on B12.

I was taking 2500's as a vegan, blood tested to high a level so cut back.

The only way to know is thru a blood test

I take 1000 sublingually. Maybe go up and talk to Debbie at Lake Nutrition. I can't guarantee she will know the answer but she does seem to know more than most.

I take, one B12(methylcobalamin) - sublingual daily. It does seem to give me more energy during workouts.

The good lord will give you, the first 50 years. The second 50 years, you have to work for it.

VPL:

I personally would go to my PCP, and let him do a blood test. then go back to get the B12 shot.

The you can always take B12 tablets, upon PCP recommendation, of the proper dosage. My brother was B12 deficient and he got a shot. He felt tremendously better. Some things need to be administered thru a doctor, rather than self medicate.

Most of us have medical plans where we pay next to almost nothing, for doctor visits.

Just sayin.........because I know you love doctors, colonoscopies etc. :D

Eat some meat, problem solved.

Unless you have an illness or take medication that prevents absorption of B12 from your intestines, there is absolutely no reason to get a shot. All you are doing is helping the doctor with his next car payment and driving up the cost of medical care for everyone. Saying that "we pay next to nothing" means someone else is paying it, but it is getting paid and for no medical reason.

As to the question of the OP about dosing. As B12 is a water soluble vitamin, excess intake will just make your urine richer in vitamins. It will not accumulate in your body as can ADE and K. Perhaps there is some huge number which would be excessive, but if you stick with OTC products or simple multivites (how about a Flintstones?) you should be entirely safe

John A. McDougall, MD (I'm sure you know of him), in his book, "The Starch Solution," recommends 5 mcg daily of methylcobalamin or hydroxycobalamin. Or he says take 500 mcg once/week… higher doses appear "safe and non-toxic."

Keep spreading the good word VPL! :wave:

Heme Iron vs Non-heme Iron
 

IRON RICH FOODS for VEGETARIANS and VEGANS
 

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Why we still eat meat, poultry, etc.
 

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Thanks, jpharmat. I did some reading last night and learned that methylcobalamin is the natural form of B12. Cyanocobalamin is the synthetic form and has a cyanide molecule attached. I went Vegan in the spring of 2006 and when I started buying B12 tablets I didn't realize I was buying the synthetic form. So for the last 8 years I have been taking the synthetic form without realizing it. Now I have learned that the natural form is a safer more effective supplement.

Thanks for the recommendation of Nutritional Yeast Flakes. I'll see if I can find out who sells it in the Villages area. I believe the sublingual tab contains 1,000 mcg. and I worry that it might be too much for me.

Glad to hear that you are having good results. If you have observed an increase in energy, perhaps you had a deficiency. But it doesn't hurt to do some reading. Here's what I have been using as a source book: The New Encylopedia of Vitamins, Minerals, Supplements, & Herbs by Nicola Reavley. The only problem is, it may not be up-to-date anymore. The copyright date is 1998. I'm going to see if I can get a newer revised edition.

M doctor put me on one B12 shot every other week for about three months to get my level back to normal then switched me to one 500mg tablet per day.

Thanks, Jimbo, I have been tested from time to time over the past eight years, and the result has always been good. I started out taking a 100 mcg. tablet. Eventually, I couldn't find the same 100 mcg. tablet anymore. So I bought a 500 and cut it in half. So I took 250 for a period of time figuring the extra amount wouldn't do any harm. The rest of the story is a little complicated to explain.

One of my blood tests indicated that I had a slightly slow thyroid. I suspected, among other things, that a B6 deficiency could have restricted the production of thyroxine. And I thought perhaps too much B12 might have caused it, as I now know from reading, "Prolonged ingestion of large doses of one B vitamin can result in depletion of others." So I cut the 250 tablet in half and started taking a 125. Three months later another blood test indicated that my thyroid was normal.

But now my supply of 125 mcg tablets is running low and I want to find something better. I think 100 micrograms should be enough for me, especially due to the fact that the official recommendation is for 2.4 micrograms daily. And I want it to be the natural form: Methylcobalamin. I believe, from what I read, the synthetic might cause an eye problem. I will need to double check that.

I've been on 1000 mcg for 15 years with no problem. At the beginning I was given an injection because B12 was so low. I believe the term for lack of B12 due to the stomach not absorbing ingested B12 is pernicious anemia. I am certain that other vitamins are necessary to absorb B12 possibly magnesium and calcium. B12 is needed for proper nervous system function. The doctors seem only interested that my B12 does not go below a certain level and not with my high level that exceeds the high of the recommended range.

nternet research should answer all your questions.

Eating meat and other B12 rich foods, or even taking supplements of B12 my not solve the problem if you have pernicious anemia. This condition does not allow the absorption of B12 in any form. The deficiency can be fatal. Shots are necessary to get the B12 directly into the blood.

Villages PL... if you are unable to find the Nutritional Yeast or Nooch as most Vegans call it, you can easily find it online. Amazon or Vegan Essentials will probable have it.
Patty

From USA.GOV; Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet IRON
 

Just a reminder...the original topic was how to get necessary B12 levels.

Several posts have been removed for having comments directed at other members.

Back on topic...

If your thyroid is "low" I recommend seeing Dr. Hamilton Fish in Leesburg. He is an excellent endocrinologist with a very good curriculum vitae.

Village PL. Try Lake Nutrition. Debbie has been extremely helpful with my family issues and has products you don't find in the classic GNC or Vitamin World e.g. things that have to stay refrigerated and things that you use to cook with.

How Does B12 Deficiency Cause Iron-Deficiency Anemia
 

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Thanks, I called and got some information. I asked about the liquid form and it was out of stock. I asked about Nutritional Yeast Flakes and they have it. I plan on going there tomorrow to do some label reading and, hopefully, I'll find something I like.

My PCP has done blood tests but never gives any advice on how many micrograms I should take. He just leaves it up to me.

Eating meat wouldn't necessarily solve the problem. One vitamin book I have (Earl Mindell's vitamin book) states that B12 is difficult to absorb from protein. Big consumers of protein may also need to take B12 supplements. Most people over age 50 who eat meat require B12 supplementation.

As an example, I picked out a standard diet:

Breakfast: 2 large scrambled eggs = ...................94 mcg. B12

Lunch: 1 serving of cheeseburger = .....................97 mcg B12

Dinner: 1/2 fillet cooked pink salmon =.................4.29 mcg B12

................................Total daily micrograms........6.2

That's not a lot and you might not absorb it all. Many are supplementing with 500 micrograms or more. At this point in time, I would prefer 60 to 100 micrograms for myself. As you can see in the example above, relying on animal protein alone, for an elderly person, is not a good idea, in my opinion.

:agree:

I agree somewhat: Too much B12 will make your urine richer in vitamins but your liver will store some. Although, I get what you mean, that the storage amount might not be as much as it is for some other vitamins.

Thanks for the suggestion. The problem is finding a local store that sells 500 microgram tablets that are not synthetic. I haven't found it yet. For the time being I have decided to take my 125 micrograms (from 500mcg cut in half twice) every other day. That averages out to 62.5 micrograms daily, but it's synthetic.

Thanks again. :)

Great information! A plus for vegans/vegetarians.

I was wondering what this has to do with B12, but now I think I understand: If one relies on eating a lot of meat to get their B12, they put themselves at risk for lots of degenerative diseases as they age. Very good point.

Thankfully, my thyroid is not underactive anymore because I fixed it myself, no thanks to my doctor. If I had relied solely on doctors, I would be taking medication for the rest of my life.

I bought some Nutritional Yeast Flakes this morning at Lake Nutrition. They reassured me that the product is all natural. But what I have discovered is that the only reason it contains B12 is because they fortify it with Cyanocobalamin, the synthetic form of B12. And it's fortified with other B vitamins that I don't need or want.

One good thing about it is that the dosage of B12 is low. The Kal brand was 10 micrograms per rounded tablespoon. And I believe the NOW brand I bought should be about the same.

This has been a learning experience: Essentially, eating Nutritional Yeast Flakes is like taking a B-complex-multi-vitamin. It may be good for some people but I don't think it suits my needs.

I guess I need to do more reasearch to find out what other products are available online.

Conclusion:
 

As I said, I bought the Nutritional Yeast on Thursday morning, which was a bad decision on my part. By evening I put it out with the garbage.

Then I remembered that I had a 2012 catalogue from Puritan's Pride. Someone gave it to me and I never ordered anything from it. So I looked to see if they had any low dosage B12 tablets. And to my surprise they had 100 microgram B12 tablets. The only drawback is that it was the synthetic B12.

I got on the phone and called the Publix pharmacy and the pharmacist informed me that there has never been any warnings about ill effects from synthetic B12. And he thought that taking a low dosage would be a wise choice.

I then called Puritan's Pride and they are going to send me a new catalogue to order from. The price on the 100mcg tablets has since gone up a little but is still very reasonable.

All's well that ends well. :thumbup:

Well PL this has been a very interesting thread. I have learned much about the B12 that I have been taking. I also never made the connection between non heme and heme iron with B12. Thanks for starting this thread.

Sorry Lake didn't have anything that fit the bill. If they don't have something, they usually (Debbie) can tell me where to go for it.

VPL, check out Swanson Health Products online. I find their products to be well researched well formulated and very cost efficient. They will also be able to give you info on the phone. That is my first go to place for supplements.

LW888

I'm still waiting to get my new vitamin catalogue from Puritan's Pride, so I'll check it out while I'm waiting.

Thanks

Glad you found it interesting and informative; I did too. I'm either learning something new or relearning something I read about and forgot. I seem to remember reading something about non heme iron and heme iron in the past but I forgot and started thinking that all iron is the same. Thanks to Senior Citizen, I got some valuable information just when I needed it. I was beginning to wonder if certain plant foods, higher in iron, like lentils, might be harmful. Now that's one less thing to worry about.

Red meat also contains copper and that too is worrisome for older people as it carries a risk, as iron does, for dementia.

When I went to Lake Nutrition, I didn't remember to ask for Debbie, I talked to someone who didn't seem to be very familiar with B12. Then, in my confusion, I bought something that was totally wrong for my needs. In other words, I bought on impulse. So I threw it out that same day and I have only myself to blame.

Always ask for Debbie...or just say the owner if you can't remember her hame. She knows faaaaaarrrrrr more than anyone else.