Roundabout at Pinellas and Morse
 

Up until recently, Morse has been blocked off at the Pinellas Gate and cars got used to using both lanes to exit onto Pinellas because no one could go straight. I have studied the roundabout flyer and unless I am reading it wrong, only the right lane can turn right. Now that Morse is open past Pinellas, cars are turning right from both lanes. When I pointed this problem out to the two people manning the booth at the Pinellas
exit tonight, they both assured me that there are indeed two lanes (visitor and resident) and so both lanes from Morse can turn right into the Pinellas Gate. Am I reading the roundabout flyer incorrectly? My understanding is that if you are turning right or going straight, you must be in the right lane. If you are going straight, third turn or basically making a U turn, you must be in the left lane. When I told them that even the signs before the roundabout turns direct traffic this way, they told me I was incorrect. Their reasoning is that because there are two lanes entering the gate, therefore both lanes may turn right. Am I wrong? If I am correct, it's troublesome that even the folks in the manned booth have it wrong. Someone is going to get hurt in this roundabout!

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

You are correct. The gate attendants are wrong. A car in the right lane has the option to continue south on Morse. If a car tries to enter Pinellas at the same time, CRASH. A car in the left lane must continue south on Morse or continue around to the driving range or fire station or back north.

I would suggest contacting the District with the info on when and where so that they can educate those gate attendants.

Will someone post the simple illustration?

Sorry but you are wrong. Both lanes can turn. The painted road markings show that. I'm not saying I agree or like it but it is what it is.

This disagrees.


http://thevillagesideas.com/wp-conte...roundabout.png

Then they'd need to repaint the road markings. I got cutoff the other day when I was in the right lane and someone in the left lane exited the roundabout from the inside lane

John

John - same thing happened to us and had there been an accident we would have been wrong. We just thought we were correct!

Look at the painted "stripes/lane" markings on the road. If there is a SOLID white line, you are NOT supposed to change lanes at that point. If the lane markings are "dashed" you CAN change lanes. In some states it is a moving violation if you cross a solid white line. On 2 lane roads and some 3 lane roads the center line is yellow. When the line on your side is solid yellow you cannot pass, if the line on your side is dashed you can pass with caution yielding to oncoming traffic.
This also means if you are not changing lanes you need to be aware of the lane markings because the OTHER driver can change lanes. And some will change no matter what the markings are, we all know about defensive driving.

It depends on exactly what everyone is talking about. I think that we have to start using different terminology when talking about round abouts. "Making a right hand turn" is a confusing phrase. We are making a right hand turn every time we exit a round about.

We should be talking about entering and exiting the round about.

In a four way round about it is possible for two lanes to exit at any point.

Think of the round about as a clock and you are entering at 6:00. You should stay in the right hand lane if you want to exit at 3:00. If a car has entered at 12:00 or 9:00 they could be exiting that same exit from the left hand lane.

There are several possible scenarios where a car can be LEGALLY crossing in front of another car in a round about. It is the responsibility of every driver to be aware of this and anticipate what other cars in the round about may possibly do. Personally, I try to make sure that I am never directly beside a car in a round about and always expect other cars to change lanes in front of me especially if I am in the left hand lane while exiting the round about but also if I am in the right hand lane and going around to the next exit. I try to assume that a car in the right hand lane will be going around. It is important that we use our directionals when exiting or changing lanes.

Most of the time cars are entering round abouts at different times so as not to be side by side in the round about.

Gracie, take a look at your picture. If a car enters the round about from Buena Vista in the left lane and a car enters from O'Dell Circle in the right hand lane, they can both either exit at Buena Vista at the top of the diagram. In that case the car entering from O'Dell would be what jkomoros calls making a right hand turn, but the car that entered at Buena Vista could also be making that turn.

Use this sign....
 

This is the first sign you should see, when starting into the roundabouts. It will alleviate all other problems....




http://caseybombacie.com/wp-content/...2/04/yield.jpg

The guidance brochure that is available on the VCDD website:
http://www.districtgov.org/community...t-02-08-12.pdf

The brochure could more clearly emphasize that:

once entering a roundabout in the right lane, a right-lane car MUST EXIT the roundabout within TWO OR LESS exits.

once entering a roundabout in the left lane, and because a left-lane vehicle may pass by two or more exits before exiting a roundabout, vehicles should avoid traveling side by side through a roundabout

because a left-lane vehicle may exit a roundabout from the left, all drivers should use turn signal even in the roundabout AND right-lane vehicles should always be prepared to yield to a left-lane vehicle.

Just came off the round-a-bout on Morse and O'Dell and the arrows definitely allow for the car in the left to go straight thru or exit right. I think we get into trouble when those in the right lane attempt to proceed thru when there is a car coming in the left lane that intends to exit right. If people would just wait for the car in the left lane to pass before they enter the round-a-bout it wouldn't be so treacherous.

NO you are not wrong.....there will be a terrible crash at that roundabout soon if someone wants to go straight (while in the right lane) and someone else decides to turn right from the inside lane!

VERY good advice and I am well aware of that possibility. Everyone should try to stay behind or in front of other cars and keep their eyes on them. Signal when turning too.

In the case you mention, IMO the car entering from Odell needs to yield. By yield, I mean the car entering at Odell should allow car that entered at BV to go past before entering. This way they would not be in the roundabout at the same time....

Just got back from another trip - this time entered Morse from Rainey Trail and took it down to Stillwater. If you pay attention to the arrows drawn clearly on the street as you approach the round-a-bout they will clearly tell you what direction your lane is allowed to continue going. Most of the big circles that have 2 lanes and 2 entrances to the neighborhood allow for the le ft lane to enter (make a right) or go straight thru and the right lane to only go right and not straight thru.

Forget the road markings they are not solid because the folks entering morse from pinellas can enter into the right or left lane depending on the way they wish to travel. The gate guards are incorrect. The traffic signs, as well as the flyer say it all. IT IS CLEAR AND SIMPLE. If you enter the roundabout in the right lane, you must make the first right turn, or continue and exit at the ysecond. If you enter the roundabout in the left lane, you may not make the first exit regardless of how many lanes that exit has. You can use the second, or third exit. Regardless of which lane you use when entering the roundabout, you must yield to all traffic already in the circle.

Perfect! As you say, the signs designate how each lane must travel through the roundabout.

The worst roundabout, IMO, is the one on Morse at Stillwater. Probably 75% of cars heading east on Stillwater go around to northbound Morse in the outside lane, causing a backup at the Caroline gate.

Here is the link to the roundabout guide:
strictgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27%2fPdfUpload%2fRoundaboutBroc hure+-+FINAL070908.pdf%27&ql=standard

Looking at this, it is very clear to me that you MAY NOT turn right from the left lane. Accidents will happen if you don't follow this guide. And the signs right before each roundabout are very clear on how this works for each specific roundabout.

Simple Solution
 

There is a very simple solution. Yield to BOTH lanes of traffic and you will never have a problem.

This is the answer! So many people read the yield sign to mean only the lane they wish to enter has to be yielded to, when it is both lanes. Do not enter the roundabout if there is traffic in either lane. This avoids the situation of traveling next to a car while in the roundabout.

And don't enter the roundabout at the same time as the car next to you, although this is hard to accomplish when there is heavy traffic, because as you wait for the car next to you to enter, another fills its slot.

But a 4-way stop sign also reduces the capacity of the intersection to a small fraction of that of a circle.

As has been said by others, problems are eliminated if you...yield to both lanes and avoid driving next to others vehicles.

that is not the intersection being discussed, the signs vary depending on the most expedient traffic pattern for THAT circle.

Looneycat, where in TV is there a different roundabout signage than the one shown?

You are not correct.

I've said this before and I will say it again. I believe part of the problem (NOT all of it) is the solid white line seperating the two lanes as one enters the 3 o'clock exit...approaching a gate that has both a visitor side and a resident side. This solid line tells people not to cross it, so when they see the broken line (within the roundabout) they tend to cross it to get to the "visitor's side" before they get to the solid part, which they believe is not to be crossed.

Would it make sense to have that solid line changed to broken line? It is certainly against my training to cross that solid line. With that said, I believe this is part of the problem... folks think "How can I get to the Visitor's side without crossing that solid line?" Yet the broken line is within the roundabout, where one is not supposed to change lanes!

Does this make any sense?

EDIT...changed the word to "broken" that had been ***ed (was d o t t ed)

Which is the three o'clock exit? They're all three o'clock exits, depending on where you entered the roundabout.

Forget the broken lines and the signage if that confuses you. It's simple just to think of the roundabout as an intersection of two roads that are two lanes wide in each direction.. You would not ever make a left-hand turn from the right lane of that intersection, so don't do it in a roundabout.

CFrance...thanks. I understand how they need to be navigated...was just suggesting perhaps why it is so difficut for others, and a possible "solution". The line painting just doesn't make sense...at least in my mind. And for what it is worth, I am refering to making the right turn to the left most of the two entry lanes approaching the gate.

According to the pamphlet linked in a post above, "Do not change lanes within the roundabout or as you exit"...Sooo, there is no way to get into the visitor lane? At least at the Pinellas entry from Morse, as the OP mentioned. :confused::confused::confused: I will continue to change lanes as I exit the roundabout while I cross the solid white line.

And my reference to 3 o'clock was based on a previous poster's suggestion giving a point of reference.

Sorry, JB. I didn't mean you don't know how to navigate roundabouts. I should have said If one is confused, not if you are confused.

Interesting that there is no signage at all at the roundbout of Powell Road down by Brownwood. There's just a one-way sign.

I have lived in The Villages for almost 18 months. The problem being discussed at Pinellas is happening at every roundabout. Either people do not read the rules; they do not care or they get in the wrong lane! We all have to watch other drivers when going around the roundabouts.
Pinellas has two lanes at the gates. One for residents and one or visitor's. Coming from 466A the right lane would work for the gates, but, it also works for people traveling south. So, we need to beware of all drivers..

Roundabout Markings Not Standardized
 

This is the root cause of the problems. In Europe and Asia the rules and markings are the same for every roundabout. Not true in TV. TV needs to determine a standard for signage/striping and implement the same. Then the issue becomes education and compliance. Roundabouts are very efficient at moving traffic when properly utilized. As in any other driving situation, if you are changing lanes you must yield to the lane to are changing into ie. turning right from the center lane.

When it comes to the roundabouts in TV there is an old' cliche----it's very difficult to teach an old dog new tricks. Many have never seen or driven in a roundabout before visiting or moving to TV.

Standardization of the signage and markings would certainly help. The biggest problem is there are too many cars in too big of a hurry. It almost seems that a roundabout is an accident waiting to happen!

I may be crazy, but I believe the arrows painted on the street at each round-a-bout clearly indicate what you should do. Follow these and you won't go wrong, until the guy that isn't paying attention plows into you.

Wow!

Been using roundabouts my entire driving life.....Always have understood the right lane only exits. if you are preparing to exit, you need to merge into the right lane ahead of time.

Exiting across the right lane from the left is not safe or smart....although it may be "legal" here. (why that is?? mystery to me!)

All the more reason to use the golf cart whenever possible!!!!

I find it better to ignore the lane markings and pay attention to the signs placed before the roundabout which CLEARLY show which lane entering can go where.

These round-abouts/circles really are a problem. The physical sign (see photo) conflicts with the white markings on the street. We all know that a solid lines means not to pass and that a broken line means that you can pass. The street markings should definately follow the signs. They conflict one another. Isn't it the local DOT who has marked these roads?

It sure is a mess! :(

The right lane can only be used if you want to use the first or second exit. (See sign Graciegirl posted or see roundabout brochure.) If you are exiting on second, third, or fourth exit you MUST be in the left lane. If you are in the right lane and try to use the third or fourth exit from when you entered, you will be turning into a car properly going through the roundabout in the left lane and you will be T-boned. Exiting only from the right lane in every case is not correct and will eventually case an accident.