A retired policeman shoots someone over texting
 

I have waffled on gun control. But now we have a 71 year old retired Florida captain of the police who goes to the movies with his wife and shoots a man (fatally) and his wife (in her hand) sitting two rows away after having words because he is texting which was presumably extremely annoying.

Clearly there is no one better trained than a captain in the police force on how to and when to use a gun. He had to have been checked for his mental health to be in the police department. In a theatre with people watching a movie, he lost it. Just completely lost it. In a movie theatre, he stumbled over the people in between and took out a 38 and killed the man and inadvertently his wife. What is there to say? If you can't trust a 71 year old retired policeman to be able to responsibly handle a gun, who should be trusted? It is so very disturbing.

If reports are accurate, the feature movie hadn't started----the previews were showing at the time of the shooting. True, even under these circumstances texting is annoying but not to the point of killing someone. Seems similar to "road rage". Very scary!

its just sad very sad

What I find most disturbing is a retired police man...captain no less...who should have the most experience and "patience" with a situation completely lost it with his wife there as well. Can you imagine what would have happened if he hadn't shot straight and started a shoot out in the theatre? If someone of this caliber can be that recklessly dangerous with a gun..where is the standard for responsible ownership? It is so disheartening. If he hadn't had the gun, it would have been such a different situation.

read the story, 43 year old vs 71 year old man.
“This verbal altercation starts getting louder and louder. During this altercation, it goes from a verbal to a physical altercation,” he said.
Then, “the suspect, Curtis Reeves, pulled out a gun,”

Retired cop guns down man for texting at Florida movie: sheriff - U.S. News

The suspect they are referring to in the story is the 71 year old sheriff. The 43 year old that was texting did not pull a weapon and was apparently unarmed.

The facts are pretty straight forward. What it leaves you with is the question, "If you can't trust a retired police captain with a gun, who can you trust?" What happens to the argument that guns don't kill people but people kill people so guns in the right hands are no problem. Who exactly is the "right" person? With all those years of training...he lost it. If he lost it, I have to think I could...especially on the roundabouts during season :)

Looking forward to hearing how the NRA will defend this action.

I know, I read the story, I was pointing out the fact that it turned into a physical altercation before “the suspect, Curtis Reeves, pulled out a gun,”

We really don't know how much training the shooter had. Being a police officer doesn't necessarily mean you've been trained in criminal justice procedures. Many sheriffs are elected officials. They don't necessarily have any police training to get the job. Working up the ranks to police commander doesn't guarantee a lot of training -- it could be political, it could be nepotism, it could be blind luck.

I know in California officers in one town are required to have a Master's in either criminal justice or education. The next town over requires a high school diploma. The difference in the officers of these two towns is amazing. Something tells me most officers in Florida have the type of training the high school graduates have -- they know how to be bullies; they know how to write tickets; they know how to profile; but they don't really know how to protect and serve. Don't assume that police officers have all that much more training than the average person. It really depends on the area.

The reality is that every human has a trigger that can be pulled if pushed too far. So, if that trigger is pulled, things become physical. If you happen to have a weapon when in that state, it becomes very possible to want to use that weapon and, if you're not entirely sane (none of us are), it becomes possible to use that weapon. I am totally of the theory that it is people that kill, not guns. So, limiting who can have a gun makes sense. Florida is too lax in who can carry, as are most states. To me, there should be a viable reason for being allowed to carry a concealed weapon, not just in case something happens and there MIGHT be a need to protect myself. It should be a very viable reason; evidence should be given that a gun is needed because of a threat of grave physical harm. To issue a concealed weapon to someone just because they have no history of violence and have not committed a felony is not sufficient in my mind.

(BTW -- I carry, so don't push my buttons. ;-))

CNN interviewed a retired marine (vietnam) and his son who were sitting in between. He did not mention a physical altercation between the two of them. He said the policeman stumbled over him and his son and shot the man.

It doesn't really matter. He shot the man over being annoyed.

Maybe the NRA will say that due to all of his experience and training, the retired police captain hit his intended target instead of a bystander?

This intentional shooting by a retired law enforcement officer is just one more reason not to carry concealed pistols when just going out for an evening of entertainment. Wesley Chapel is not a high crime area and there was no need to carry a pistol into a theater.

Retires Sheriff (not)
 

The article I read indicated it was a retired Police Captain. Where does Sheriff come in?

The theatre chain where this occured does not allow guns and has signs posted "no guns allowed". At some point, the alleged shooter left the theatre and returned with a gun. This sounds like pre-meditated murder.

The shooter has been charged with second-degree murder. There was no physical altercation between the two men. They were two rows apart, according to news reports. At age 71, whatever sentence he receives will probably be a life sentence.

Yes I put in the wrong title (sheriff) as they were referring to him as a sheriff initially in the news report I was listening to. I then corrected that detail as I wrote the post. In fact, I referred to him later as a police man as well. That said, I fail to see ultimately if it makes a difference whether he was a sheriff, a policeman, or a captain who shot someone over texting in the theatre.

he was beyond trained. from the article:

"Reeves retired as a captain from the Tampa Police Department in 1993, said Laura McElroy, a spokeswoman for the department, adding that Reeves helped set up the department's first SWAT team."

I still don't understand why people feel they need to be armed at all times. Clearly, if this man had no gun on him, this wouldn't have happened.

Police Captain
 

As Red Witch pointed out a sheriff could have been elected and not had any training. Also I believe this was many years after his retirement and we don't know his mental state.

I think that there are greater questions from listening to the views on this forum about law enforcement over time. Some feel that law enforcement is the enemy and don't miss a chance to put them down. Some think of them as officer friendly, always the good guys.


My grandfather (my grandparents raised me) was a police officer for 39 years and never fired his weapon at anyone in Columbus, Ohio. He was a tall, fit man, quiet and not very talkative. I never saw him angry.


So my opinion of what a police officer is, is much colored by my view of him.


I think that there are SOME who may be bullies who want to become police officers these days and want to boss people around. I don't know. I don't have much, actually no dealings with the law.


The people who are law enforcement I am sure are carefully vetted, but still mental illness and personality problems like anger control can happen if someone begins to go into dementia.


It is true that if he hadn't had a gun, those innocent people wouldn't be dead.


But that in itself is not the whole answer here.


Defining the questions become more difficult as I get older and see more of life.

The sheriff reference may have come from the report that an off duty Sumter Co. Deputy sheriff apparently held the shooter until the local authorities arrived.

My point was: If a highly trained and long experienced officer of the law can lose it over someone texting and shoot him while at a theatre with his wife, what does that say about the rest of us who have far less experience.

This is not to slam police. It is to examine the tenet that guns should only be in the right hands. Who is the "right" hand if not this man?

Thanks for pointing out the distinction. You learn something every day.

Lesson learned --- do not text in movie theater :)

It is a lesson to all of us about the consequences of letting anger take control!

There are millions of people who own firearms and who have never broken the guns laws nor used them irresponsibly. Just because one guy is a felonious fool does not, ergo, mean that all gun owners should be punished ... ie gun control.

The basic premise remains intact ... if the guv outlaws legal gun ownership, or restricts it so severely as to accomplish the same purpose de facto, criminals will continue to use firearms irregardless.

This guy should not have carried his weapon into the theater. The FL laws states that, if an establishment so posts, the carrier must obey. in any event, he should be tried for murder 1.

However, I think the correlation between the need for concealed carry depends on where one lives. In the TV bubble for instance, I see no need. Other towns in Central Florida ... not the same. Agree however Wesley CHapel is a nice place.

Someone said that if the retired officer didn't have a gun, an innocent life would not have been lost. Could he not have waited for the victim to exit the theater and then run him over with his car? Should we ban all cars because of some irresponsible drivers?
This gun was obviously in the wrong hands regardless of the perpetrator's former job.

well one would hope that the time it would take for the person to leave, get in his car, and maybe listen to his wife (hopefully) would have given him the time needed to realize he was over-reacting. It just seems to me, that a lot of these incidents, (George Zimmerman, a man in Clearwater who came out to yell at skateboarders and killed his neighbors) are because people had guns when they didn't need them.

I came from a family of police officers. They never wanted to pull a gun because they are trained not to do so unless they intend to use it. And there may be a different breed of police these days. Certainly the job has gotten more difficult. In my father's day the police were respected and people obeyed them. Now they taunt and insult them and if they react at all get complaints filed.

This man was 71 and may have had some age related dementia or something that caused him to reach that degree of anger. I mean the guy was texting during the previews....not the film itself and to become so infuriated to resort to that all the while he sat there breaking the law by having a gun there....

The one man was texting where it was clearly illegal to do it. Then the other guy had a gun where he should not have had it. Does the two violations cancel each other out. Of course the killing still remains. Perhaps the 71 year old man was in fear of his life from the 43 year old man. Zimmerman got away with it so why not the retired officer.

Metal detector
 

It seems to me that since the world is becoming so unpredictable that metal detectors should be placed at the entrance of every public place.... theaters, malls, restaurants, etc. why would anyone need to bring a gun into a public place if there were no other weapons in that establishment? Problem solved.

A husband and father of a young girl DIED .... your attempt at humor is decidedly not funny

Rules are rules as I have learned om TOTV reference the fence behind the bush.

George Zimmerman got away with it because he claimed self-defense. The police department spokesman said yesterday that this is not a self-defense or 'stand your ground' case and would not be investigated as such.

Friends and neighbors, interviewed for today's newpapers, were unanimous in saying Curtis Reeves was in control of his mental faculties.

Who said it is illegal to text in a movie theater?

Yes but at least THIS texter would be alive! This story isn't an isolate incident. People die every day from someone carrying a concealed (legal) gun. Would have been a complete non-story if a gun was not present. Sad, Sad.

And the Florida legislature right now is considering a bill to allow people to show (i.e. brandish) a gun in public.

Perhaps a little education about the training of law enforcement officers in Florida is in order. It might change your stereotype image, as highlighted above.

1. The shooter was neither an elected Sheriff nor a Deputy Sheriff. He was a retired Captain from the Tampa Police Department. He had been retired for over twenty years.

2. Florida has a very stringent qualification program for certification as a law enforcement officer, administered by the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Division of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

In addition, an annual re-qualification in the high hazard elements (especially firearms, pursuit driving and first responder first aid) and in physical fitness is mandatory for maintaining certification. The basic training program for certification as a law enforcement officer lasts just over three months.

3. In the agency where I worked, the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office (Tampa) you need not bother to apply to become a Deputy Sheriff unless you already have a four year college degree.

If accepted for consideration you are required to go through a state approved police academy to become certified as a law enforcement officer, but this does not guarantee you a job.

Applicants at HCSO must go through an additional training period which is similar to military "boot camp" where your response to highly stressful situations, simulating police job stress, is measured.

Successful applicants then go "on the road" with a Field Training Officer where they are further evaluated for suitability for a career in law enforcement. If successful, they then operate on their own for a further probationary period, and then become full fledged Deputy Sheriffs.

In addition to the Law Enforcement Deputies, the HCSO has certified Detention Deputies who staff the multiple jail facilities and the courts of the county. Their training is similar, with emphasis on a different skill set, to the Law Enforcement Deputies.

The HCSO is one of the largest Sheriff's Offices in the United States.

And, getting back to the original point --- your stereotype of law enforcement officers in Florida. The Florida Criminal Justice Standards and Training Curriculum is available for review on line at Florida Department of Law Enforcement I don't think you will find being bullies, writing tickets or profiling on the list.

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Getting back to this particular tragic incident, there is another observation to be made. The shooter was 71 years old; the victim was 43. Obviously, tempers flared on both sides.

There is a saying, usually said as a joke, which contains an element of truth:

"Never pick a fight with an old man. He knows that he can't whip you, so he has to shoot you."

Personally, I never express anger at someone who cuts me off in traffic or otherwise offends me in public. To me it isn't worth getting into a confrontation........ even though I think I would prevail. I am an old man.

The state of Florida recently decided,with much urging from the NRA, that it was ok for college students to bring a gun to campus.........it must be kept locked in their car. Soon in Florida you will see people with side arms strapped to their hip!

I agree.

A circuit judge has denied Curtis Reeves bond, so it seems he will have plenty of time to sit in jail and rethink his actions. His decision going forward seems to be do I possibly bankrupt my family by going to trial or should I just plead guilty and spend the rest of my life in jail.

Probably good points to think about when buying a gun!

Regardless of the aspect that a gun chose to shoot this guy, we can all expect to see more violence of all types. The general lack of respect for rules and nearly universal void of common courtesy is a breeding ground for confrontation.